There's a lot of solid info in the patch notes from the (relatively) recent Osttruppen change patches, but one thing I've never seen explained anywhere is how cover damage bonuses work.
Can Osttruppen and British infantry be standing on the same side of cover as the enemy and still get the damage bonus? Or do they have to be firing past the cover at the enemy for the bonus to apply, similar to the defensive bonus cover provides?
Also, is the bonus calculated on a per-model basis? Or does the entire squad get the bonus as long as it has the buff shield icon over it, even when several models are either in a different kind of cover or out of cover entirely?
And lastly, I heard recently in some thread that half-tracks provide cover to the troops inside -- do they literally provide a cover modifier or just prevent projectiles from hitting the troops inside? And if the former, do Osttruppen get their cover-based damage modifier while in a half track? And what about when inside unorthodox garrisons such as towers?
This is probably the only mechanic I still don't fully understand after five years, since I've not been a fan of Osttruppen until recently, so would appreciate any insight.
How exactly do cover-based damage bonuses work?
9 Sep 2018, 00:53 AM
#1
Posts: 246
9 Sep 2018, 10:57 AM
#2
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...
Can Osttruppen and British infantry be standing on the same side of cover as the enemy and still get the damage bonus? ...
Cover "status" applies when ever a unit is near cover regardless of direction
Also, is the bonus calculated on a per-model basis?
It a sbps thus should applies to all entities even if not in cover.
half-tracks provide cover to the troops inside -- do they literally provide a cover modifier or just prevent projectiles from hitting the troops inside?
HT provide the garrison_Cover modifier as far as I know which is separate of the Enfield for instance is 0.5/0.5.
Now some weapon can damage all unit inside garrison and troops in HT probably take more damage from them.
And if the former, do Osttruppen get their cover-based damage modifier while in a half track? And what about when inside unorthodox garrisons such as towers?
Cover bonus requires inside building and thus it should not apply inside HT for Osttruppen. (Not sure if trench is considered buildings Towers probably are buildings).
9 Sep 2018, 11:16 AM
#3
Posts: 632 | Subs: 1
Garrisons give garrison cover, which is better than light but slightly worse than heavy cover. That includes transports which infantry can fire out of, but not closed ones like the Sd.Kfz. 251 and Opel Blitz - these protect infantry from direct damage. There are, however, different settings as for how AoE damage can apply to garrisoned troops.
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9 Sep 2018, 11:21 AM
#4
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Garrisons give garrison cover, which is better than light but slightly worse than heavy cover. That includes transports which infantry can fire out of, but not closed ones like the Sd.Kfz. 251 and Opel Blitz.
An important note: garrison cover is worse than green cover in the sense of incoming dps reduction, which is how garrisons can be cleared with siege, without granades, but it is much better in the sense that it has no minimal range, so you can't just close into a building to remove it, like you can with other types of cover.
9 Sep 2018, 11:41 AM
#5
Posts: 632 | Subs: 1
An important note: garrison cover is worse than green cover in the sense of incoming dps reduction, which is how garrisons can be cleared with siege, without granades, but it is much better in the sense that it has no minimal range, so you can just close into a building to remove it, like you can with other types of cover.
True!
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9 Sep 2018, 13:14 PM
#6
Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3
It a sbps thus should applies to all entities even if not in cover.
Nah it must be on a per-model basis. I have seen so many times where a full health model got critted (e. g. by a gren squad on max range) instantly even tho its squad had the green cover icon or a squad got instantly supressed by a HMG, even tho they were standing on the correct side of the cover and the "heavy cover" icon (green) was showing; cuz the HMG shot at a model that was outside of the cover.
I am pretty sure the icon just means "amount of models behind that particular cover type >= 50% of the total squad size"
9 Sep 2018, 13:23 PM
#7
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Nah it must be on a per-model basis. ..
I am talking about cover "status", as bonus for ostrupppen/tommies/sappers not for cover defensive modifiers.
9 Sep 2018, 13:26 PM
#8
1 Posts: 2885
I am talking about cover "status", as bonus for ostrupppen/tommies/sappers not for cover defensive modifiers.
As far as I know cover bonuses are calculated in the same way as the icon that shows on the units who use them. If the icon is shown then the unit has its bonuses, if it doesn't then it has no bonuses. The bonus is direction-independent and squad based. I'm pretty certain of that, but if there is somebody who knows better, please correct me.
9 Sep 2018, 13:28 PM
#9
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
As far as I know cover bonuses are calculated in the same way as the icon that shows on the units who use them. ...
As I said the cover bonus ability is sbps and no ebps and that it a squad ability and applies to all squad members.
The penalties for firing on in cover come from the weapon and their cover tables and apply to entity.
9 Sep 2018, 13:32 PM
#10
1 Posts: 2885
As I said the cover bonus ability is sbps and no ebps and that it a squad ability and applies to all squad members.
The penalties for firing on in cover come from the weapon and their cover tables and apply to entity.
Exactly. No arguing with that. My last post was only about additional cover bonuces that ostruppen and IS get, not the original dps reduction.
9 Sep 2018, 13:32 PM
#11
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I am talking about cover "status", as bonus for ostrupppen/tommies/sappers not for cover defensive modifiers.
my bad
9 Sep 2018, 13:45 PM
#12
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
my bad
No problem I was not very clear since I was a responding to specific question.
9 Sep 2018, 13:47 PM
#13
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Exactly. No arguing with that. My last post was only about additional cover bonuces that ostruppen and IS get, not the original dps reduction.
There are no such bonuses anymore, it was removed from all UKF infantry and for good reason.
9 Sep 2018, 15:50 PM
#14
Posts: 246
There are no such bonuses anymore, it was removed from all UKF infantry and for good reason.
Wait, what?
9 Sep 2018, 16:02 PM
#15
Posts: 3260
Wait, what?
They removed the defense cover buffs from UKF infantry because they were beating troops that were flanking them.
The attack cover buffs remain.
9 Sep 2018, 16:12 PM
#16
Posts: 246
They removed the defense cover buffs from UKF infantry because they were beating troops that were flanking them.
The attack cover buffs remain.
There were additional defensive buffs aside from the normal ones provided by directional cover? Who even thought that was a good idea...
But anyway, I'm still confused regarding whether the damage bonus for Osttruppen is per-model or not.
Or is it definitive that the entire squad gets it as long as the icon is over their heads?
Makes a huge difference for a six-man squad of flimsy expendables, where saving several seconds by getting into the wrong side of cover instead of walking around to the right side can really make or break an engagement.
9 Sep 2018, 16:18 PM
#17
1 Posts: 2885
There were additional defensive buffs aside from the normal ones provided by directional cover? Who even thought that was a good idea...
But anyway, I'm still confused regarding whether the damage bonus for Osttruppen is per-model or not.
Or is it definitive that the entire squad gets it as long as the icon is over their heads?
Makes a huge difference for a six-man squad of flimsy expendables, where saving several seconds by getting into the wrong side of cover instead of walking around to the right side can really make or break an engagement.
It is pretty simple. There are two types of bonuses. The first type is the one that all infantry gets and it is directional, given per model and its strength depends on the type of cover. The second type is the one that only IS and ostruppen get and this one is not directional, squad based and the same for all types of positive cover. The second type also has a separate icon and only when this icon is shown, the squad benefits from the bonus: flanked or not.
Also, I don't know what vipper is smoking, but IS clearly has an offensive squad based bonus.
9 Sep 2018, 16:45 PM
#18
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
....
Also, I don't know what vipper is smoking, but IS clearly has an offensive squad based bonus.
You should simply be bit more clear when post.
Exactly. No arguing with that. My last post was only about additional cover bonuces that ostruppen and IS get, not the original dps reduction.
IS used to get addition cover bonuses -10% Target size.
That defensive cover bonus was removed.
IS do not get a bonuses for being in cover but a penalty when out of it.
They still do get it and it is, *1.4 reload and *1.2 penalty when not in cover.
9 Sep 2018, 16:53 PM
#19
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Didn't Royal engineers get a bonus on cover (offensive)?
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And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
9 Sep 2018, 17:41 PM
#20
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Didn't Royal engineers get a bonus on cover (offensive)?
They do get one but as vet 1 ability and only on stens. 0.5 reload and 0.3 cool-down.
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