Soviet tank veterancy needs a rework

Newsflash, actually we DO have deflection damage for several high caliber gun tanks (Brumm and ISU comes to mind).

In COH1 it worked basically like this - TDs like StuG and Panther, M10 and iirc heavies had high applied damage vs tanks, hence they had a serious impact and a well defined role. Base damage was lower and tank HPs were lower as well but the ratio between dmg and hp was similar.

In CoH2 most tanks have the same damage that is applied to tanks, and TDs and heavy tanks are largely just in turbo firing mode but apply the same damage like other tanks.

This not only leads to less varied gameplay and less diversity between units, but is also ninja nerfs the heavies since generally more units firing = higher DPS = better.

At least in CoH1 there was an interesting choice to make between spamming lesser units, or concentrating firepower in fewer units. In CoH2 there is no such choice, as long as it can do damage (=pen), more units are simply better. Hence why people spammed things like Su 76s and StuGs.

You and the guy you've quoted probably are too young to remember, but that's how it was at the start and it was dreadful, IS-2 couldn't hit literally anything, but when it did once the planets aligned, it was a wipe.

You literally want to make is another KV-2, because KV-2 is at the moment exactly what you're asking for.
So before you go wild, play with KV-2 and think again if you want IS-2 to be that shitty too.

Is-2 would hit fine, but could lose to the ass of a p4 because it's pen blew. Then it's accuracy got nuked because it was wiping squads every shot. then it got a ROF increase and damage decrease iirc then a pen increase and finally a slight accuracy increase and now we are here.
An ROF decrease and damage increase as well as an AOE tweak (the one I've been suggesting for years, like the Brum and isu got) could make it unique and desirable

Edit: I also agree more deflection damage units would be good. Paying a but load for units that could possibly do nothing is silly

You and the guy you've quoted probably are too young to remember, but that's how it was at the start and it was dreadful, IS-2 couldn't hit literally anything, but when it did once the planets aligned, it was a wipe.

You literally want to make is another KV-2, because KV-2 is at the moment exactly what you're asking for.
So before you go wild, play with KV-2 and think again if you want IS-2 to be that shitty too.

I remember the old IS-2. I've played ever since vanilla. However, the mod team has been moving toward consistent damage rather than wipes. What I would suggest is a slower RoF, current damage, but more reliable, less-wipey AoE, like a less-potent Brummbar. This would mean less scatter, less near AoE, and more mid/far AoE.

Good point about the KV-2. I forgot about that. The difference is that KV-2 does not have the penetration to reliably damage Panthers and Tigers, or the armor to hold its own.

In light of the KV-2, such a rework could be fairly conservative. If the KV-2 simply got the 20% received damage buff and was moved to a lower CP, KV-2 might be usable. The KV-2 should ultimately be a doctrinal, turreted Brummbar, and should be priced and timed accordingly. Right now, the 14CP and the astronomical cost is ridiculously high.

I remember the old IS-2. I've played ever since vanilla. However, the mod team has been moving toward consistent damage rather than wipes. What I would suggest is a slower RoF, current damage, but more reliable, less-wipey AoE, like a less-potent Brummbar. This would mean less scatter, less near AoE, and more mid/far AoE.

Good point about the KV-2. I forgot about that. The difference is that KV-2 does not have the penetration to reliably damage Panthers and Tigers, or the armor to hold its own.

In light of the KV-2, such a rework could be fairly conservative. If the KV-2 simply got the 20% received damage buff and was moved to a lower CP, KV-2 might be usable. The KV-2 should ultimately be a doctrinal, turreted Brummbar, and should be priced and timed accordingly. Right now, the 14CP and the astronomical cost is ridiculously high.

With even slower rof and same damage IS-2 would be even more useless against any armor

Note: all people talking about old heavies tank and they don't remember they had passive (25% chance?) TwP on deflection hits. It was cancer.

Newsflash: you remember those 2 because they are the only 2 relevant units with them. Deflection damage on tanks is only present in niche few cases, the only relevant one been the ISU AP shells (which was given after they rightfully nerfed the wipe capabilities on the HE shell). An ISU which fails to pen was really lackluster due to it's RoF. The HE shell has deflect but it's merely 40dmg and more than anything, symbolic.
Brummbear can pen (if it hits) mediums almost fine.

KT, KV2, or Sherman Bulldozer doesn't have any deflection damage whatsoever. Units which actually deal reliable deflection damage and in a meaningful way are rocket artillery (howitzer just pen fine). Things which used to do great chip dmg prior to rightfully nerfs/changed were attack ground PIATs and PTRS.

Higher alpha damage for heavies, would mean putting it in the territory of KT (look how good it is!). 200dmg model only works against advance mediums, as nerfing the RoF is actually a nerf against mediums and infantry. For 200dmg to work, you would had to make ALL AT WEAPONS do chip damage, which is a completely game rework. "But it worked" on vcoh1, guess what, as they said before, this is a different game.


PD: cause i reread and the message comes as i don't think any of this is a good idea, i'll put a 2nd post on what i think it could/should be done.

OP: soviets tanks are not UP but still...

Most EFA armies units needs to have their abilities, vet abilities, vet bonuses and XP values checked.

1- Some units should be given some "symbolic" deflect damage. Dozer is been given on the mod. KV2 should follow the same route.

2- I'll say that Pershing is not a heavy tank. It's more akin to a good (old) Comet/Panther with great AI. It doesn't have the HP pool nor mobility of a heavy. No change needed whatsoever.

3- 200dmg model Panther train has long depart from station. I had advocate for it (prior to the rework and rof buff), as giving the role of more of an anti advance medium/heavy. Right now it's mostly fine so i wouldn't touch it.

4- That been said, i don't think heavies (Tiger/IS2) should be given a damage increase. What i wonder is, what would happen if we were to give them deflection damage with their current damage and pen values.