Very few cost effective counters to upgraded Grens
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
PPSH Conscript vs LMG Gren- doctrine specific and still inferior
Molotovs- does very minimal damage unless you get a lucky crit, and easily dodged
Shocks- doctrine specific and 2x cost but only slightly better
Penals- too expensive and suck
Guards- they are decent but grenade is overpriced and the weapon drop rate is ludicrious
Sniper- only reliable counter, and early T1 forces a doctrine with Guards or easily punished by German T2 vehicles
Maxim- nerfed too hard, doesn't kill enough now
Mortars- relying on luck= no bueno
Posts: 409
By the way, Shocks are not slightly better - they are much better.
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
Try using combined arms - you're forgetting support teams and vehicles. It's not like the grenadiers spawn with the upgrade, so don't just compare it to infantry as if it's still the opening minutes.
By the way, Shocks are not slightly better - they are much better.
I added the support teams. Vehicles don't matter because it takes 4-5min for Germans to get enough units to march to your cutoff and hold it for a while. This is more of a 1v1 problem than in 2v2, because these "combined arms" you speak of leave you very vulnerable to someone that knows what they are doing. T1 without Guards is suicide if he gets T2 vehicles, and early T2 is unable to deal with a mass of T1 units. T1 + Guard doctrine is the only real answer, and you shouldn't be so limited. And Shocks are easily beaten with the right units.
Why are you saying the Maxim is supposed to kill them - pinning and forcing a retreat is a won engagement.
Sounds good in theory if the guy is bad enough to bunch all his units together. This thread wasn't aimed at mid-low level balance.
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Cons with PPSH and HTD are decent, if you get some skills in throwing Moltovs, you can easily win an engagement.
Maxim? If you don't retreat, it kills really fast.
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Vanilla Conscript vs LMG Gren- don't even bother
PPSH Conscript vs LMG Gren- doctrine specific and still inferior
Molotovs- does very minimal damage unless you get a lucky crit, and easily dodged
Shocks- doctrine specific and 2x cost but only slightly better
Penals- too expensive and suck
Guards- they are decent but grenade is overpriced and the weapon drop rate is ludicrious
Sniper- only reliable counter, and early T1 forces a doctrine with Guards or easily punished by German T2 vehicles
Maxim- nerfed too hard, doesn't kill enough now
Mortars- relying on luck= no bueno
+1
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Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
You are suppossed to use combined arms tactic while playing Soviets. Use couple of units together to achieve the goal. Sorry but this comparison is pointless. As someone have said in different topic you shouldn't compare units in vaccum.
Why do people keep trying give such obvious tips when I've been playing this game at a somewhat high level since early 2012. FYI comparing units in a vacuum is implying that you are directly comparing 2 units of similar value against each other, such as T34 vs Panzer 4. I'm comparing the entire Soviet infantry arsenal to a single cheap T1 unit, and for most of them there is a large cost discrepancy. FYI combined arms is when you use one units strenghts to counteract your other unit(s) weakness e.g. Snipers kill infantry while SU85 kills tanks. Some of those Soviet units don't even have strenghts, and if they do it is not enough of a "strength" to justify their cost (Shocktroops, Penals, etc).
Posts: 480
Vanilla Conscript vs LMG Gren- don't even bother
PPSH Conscript vs LMG Gren- doctrine specific and still inferior
Molotovs- does very minimal damage unless you get a lucky crit, and easily dodged
Shocks- doctrine specific and 2x cost but only slightly better
Penals- too expensive and suck
Guards- they are decent but grenade is overpriced and the weapon drop rate is ludicrious
Sniper- only reliable counter, and early T1 forces a doctrine with Guards or easily punished by German T2 vehicles
Maxim- nerfed too hard, doesn't kill enough now
Mortars- relying on luck= no bueno
Yep.
Yeah.
Yep - but that's fine.
Yep.
Yep.
The guard grenade's the best nade in the game (satchels aside). It's priced just fine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The vet survivability bonus on the grens tends to make keeping up with vet more important for Russian than Ostheer players. Otherwise it suddenly gets very hard to actually do any damage to the Ostheer. By contrast, fresh grens might not be great against vet scripts but they still contribute meaningful damage.
I suspect the issue may not be everything else sucking but just the LMG being too good. I dread that upgrade way more than the G-43s, for instance.
Posts: 317
Vanilla Conscript vs LMG Gren- don't even bother
PPSH Conscript vs LMG Gren- doctrine specific and still inferior
Molotovs- does very minimal damage unless you get a lucky crit, and easily dodged
Shocks- doctrine specific and 2x cost but only slightly better
Penals- too expensive and suck
Guards- they are decent but grenade is overpriced and the weapon drop rate is ludicrious
Sniper- only reliable counter, and early T1 forces a doctrine with Guards or easily punished by German T2 vehicles
Maxim- nerfed too hard, doesn't kill enough now
Mortars- relying on luck= no bueno
I fully agree while the patch has made it better Russians are still lacking any real hard hitting options to capitalize on any advantage you might gain and as the game wears on there isn't much you can do vs vetted german infantry and tanks.
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