Vanilla Conscript vs LMG Gren- don't even bother
PPSH Conscript vs LMG Gren- doctrine specific and still inferior
Molotovs- does very minimal damage unless you get a lucky crit, and easily dodged
Shocks- doctrine specific and 2x cost but only slightly better
Penals- too expensive and suck
Guards- they are decent but grenade is overpriced and the weapon drop rate is ludicrious
Sniper- only reliable counter, and early T1 forces a doctrine with Guards or easily punished by German T2 vehicles
Maxim- nerfed too hard, doesn't kill enough now
Mortars- relying on luck= no bueno
Very few cost effective counters to upgraded Grens
17 Sep 2013, 21:47 PM
#1
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
17 Sep 2013, 21:50 PM
#2
Posts: 409
Why are you saying the Maxim is supposed to kill them - pinning and forcing a retreat is a won engagement. And what about vehicles? It's not like the grenadiers spawn with the upgrade, so don't just compare it to infantry 1v1 as if it's still the opening minutes. It is a combined arms game, is it not?
By the way, Shocks are not slightly better - they are much better.
By the way, Shocks are not slightly better - they are much better.
17 Sep 2013, 22:05 PM
#3
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
Try using combined arms - you're forgetting support teams and vehicles. It's not like the grenadiers spawn with the upgrade, so don't just compare it to infantry as if it's still the opening minutes.
By the way, Shocks are not slightly better - they are much better.
I added the support teams. Vehicles don't matter because it takes 4-5min for Germans to get enough units to march to your cutoff and hold it for a while. This is more of a 1v1 problem than in 2v2, because these "combined arms" you speak of leave you very vulnerable to someone that knows what they are doing. T1 without Guards is suicide if he gets T2 vehicles, and early T2 is unable to deal with a mass of T1 units. T1 + Guard doctrine is the only real answer, and you shouldn't be so limited. And Shocks are easily beaten with the right units.
Why are you saying the Maxim is supposed to kill them - pinning and forcing a retreat is a won engagement.
Sounds good in theory if the guy is bad enough to bunch all his units together. This thread wasn't aimed at mid-low level balance.
17 Sep 2013, 22:34 PM
#4
Posts: 525
new maxim and new hmg are beast with support. as they should be.
Disclaimer: any post made by this user should not be taken seriously, reader discretion is advised.
17 Sep 2013, 22:45 PM
#5
Posts: 79
Shocks only slightly better? Lol. They fuck up everything.
Cons with PPSH and HTD are decent, if you get some skills in throwing Moltovs, you can easily win an engagement.
Maxim? If you don't retreat, it kills really fast.
Cons with PPSH and HTD are decent, if you get some skills in throwing Moltovs, you can easily win an engagement.
Maxim? If you don't retreat, it kills really fast.
17 Sep 2013, 22:54 PM
#6
Posts: 760
The main problem is that conscripts do not scale well in mid-late game at all. Vet 2 cons with posh are actually pretty good , but thats doctrine specific.
17 Sep 2013, 22:56 PM
#7
Posts: 139
Maxim just gets riflenaded in the face. Its ok as support but when you're facing 3 grens with LMGs you can't rely on a Maxim. Lucky molotovs and snipers (with Guard doctrine to follow) or lucky molotovs and Shock (with T2) seems best but Shock are fairly easy to counter (pio flamer even) and you're only going to be able to afford one squad.
17 Sep 2013, 23:09 PM
#8
Posts: 644
Vanilla Conscript vs LMG Gren- don't even bother
PPSH Conscript vs LMG Gren- doctrine specific and still inferior
Molotovs- does very minimal damage unless you get a lucky crit, and easily dodged
Shocks- doctrine specific and 2x cost but only slightly better
Penals- too expensive and suck
Guards- they are decent but grenade is overpriced and the weapon drop rate is ludicrious
Sniper- only reliable counter, and early T1 forces a doctrine with Guards or easily punished by German T2 vehicles
Maxim- nerfed too hard, doesn't kill enough now
Mortars- relying on luck= no bueno
+1
5 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
17 Sep 2013, 23:19 PM
#9
Posts: 954
JS-2 and T-34/85 isn't cost effective compare to Tiger & PZIV
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
17 Sep 2013, 23:37 PM
#10
Posts: 1439
You are suppossed to use combined arms tactic while playing Soviets. Use couple of units together to achieve the goal. Sorry but this comparison is pointless. As someone have said in different topic you shouldn't compare units in vaccum.
18 Sep 2013, 01:02 AM
#11
Posts: 170
Molotovs force lmg grens to move. Everytime the dude holding the LMG moves he must stop moving and aim again; this takes 2+ seconds before he will fire again. It cuts down their effectivenes however they still win the engagement.
18 Sep 2013, 01:30 AM
#12
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
You are suppossed to use combined arms tactic while playing Soviets. Use couple of units together to achieve the goal. Sorry but this comparison is pointless. As someone have said in different topic you shouldn't compare units in vaccum.
Why do people keep trying give such obvious tips when I've been playing this game at a somewhat high level since early 2012. FYI comparing units in a vacuum is implying that you are directly comparing 2 units of similar value against each other, such as T34 vs Panzer 4. I'm comparing the entire Soviet infantry arsenal to a single cheap T1 unit, and for most of them there is a large cost discrepancy. FYI combined arms is when you use one units strenghts to counteract your other unit(s) weakness e.g. Snipers kill infantry while SU85 kills tanks. Some of those Soviet units don't even have strenghts, and if they do it is not enough of a "strength" to justify their cost (Shocktroops, Penals, etc).
18 Sep 2013, 01:33 AM
#13
Posts: 480
Vanilla Conscript vs LMG Gren- don't even bother
PPSH Conscript vs LMG Gren- doctrine specific and still inferior
Molotovs- does very minimal damage unless you get a lucky crit, and easily dodged
Shocks- doctrine specific and 2x cost but only slightly better
Penals- too expensive and suck
Guards- they are decent but grenade is overpriced and the weapon drop rate is ludicrious
Sniper- only reliable counter, and early T1 forces a doctrine with Guards or easily punished by German T2 vehicles
Maxim- nerfed too hard, doesn't kill enough now
Mortars- relying on luck= no bueno
Yep.
Yeah.
Yep - but that's fine.
Yep.
Yep.
The guard grenade's the best nade in the game (satchels aside). It's priced just fine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The vet survivability bonus on the grens tends to make keeping up with vet more important for Russian than Ostheer players. Otherwise it suddenly gets very hard to actually do any damage to the Ostheer. By contrast, fresh grens might not be great against vet scripts but they still contribute meaningful damage.
I suspect the issue may not be everything else sucking but just the LMG being too good. I dread that upgrade way more than the G-43s, for instance.
18 Sep 2013, 02:04 AM
#14
Posts: 317
Vanilla Conscript vs LMG Gren- don't even bother
PPSH Conscript vs LMG Gren- doctrine specific and still inferior
Molotovs- does very minimal damage unless you get a lucky crit, and easily dodged
Shocks- doctrine specific and 2x cost but only slightly better
Penals- too expensive and suck
Guards- they are decent but grenade is overpriced and the weapon drop rate is ludicrious
Sniper- only reliable counter, and early T1 forces a doctrine with Guards or easily punished by German T2 vehicles
Maxim- nerfed too hard, doesn't kill enough now
Mortars- relying on luck= no bueno
I fully agree while the patch has made it better Russians are still lacking any real hard hitting options to capitalize on any advantage you might gain and as the game wears on there isn't much you can do vs vetted german infantry and tanks.
18 Sep 2013, 02:06 AM
#15
Posts: 184
KV8.
76561198005515393
18 Sep 2013, 03:16 AM
#16
Posts: 2425
Permanently Banned
18 Sep 2013, 03:38 AM
#17
Posts: 337
LMGs are a bit too good. Only a bit though.
SC2 Team: It's Gosu Esports - http://www.itsgosu.com/
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18 Sep 2013, 05:06 AM
#18
Posts: 622
LMG ok as it is, only problem is gren get it too early, if it is available at T2 instead of T1 could be nice.
18 Sep 2013, 05:35 AM
#19
Posts: 896
The problem is that this upgrade comes so early and combined with the flawed vet system that does not take into account upgrades makes them unstoppable killing machines. I think the solution is to fix the vet system to take the upgrade into account and make them available only after t2 or t3 upgrade done.
18 Sep 2013, 05:36 AM
#20
Posts: 896
And the prize for the most useless comment goes to..... Nullist!
Enjoy your brand new super duper vacuum machine!!
Enjoy your brand new super duper vacuum machine!!
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