Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

Just some feedback for the new changes:

The British Observation FHQ right now is still not worth it for 40 fuel and 300 manpower, you got a ton of ammo based abilities and a reinforcement point.

While you get the same thing but at a cheaper price with the FA at 350 manpower and 10 fuel with the upgrade.

I mean, 30 is still a lot, it can help you unlock research, tech, earlier vehicles and so forth.

So my suggestion is that in order to be worth it it must also come with a Forward Retreat Point, like the HQ Glider, so at least the invest of the fuel is worth it because right now it still feels like you're putting more in than you are getting out.

Perhaps the Soviet FHQ is in a similar situation altho it's support is more direct, still tho it makes more sense for an FHQ to have a forward retreat point rather than a unit, like in the case of the Commissar and Major.

Going to the next change, the Ostheer 250 is now a bit more usable in my opinion even if Katikof doesn't agree. I mean it's a Halftrack, it just makes sense for it to be able to reinforce. And now since it's a vet based ability it will probably mean that it will be usable even after heavier armor is on the field so it's not just a wasted investment into a quick paper armored Panzershreck bus.

And lastly, the Sturmtiger.

I feel like this unit is still underwhelming especially now that you're being locked out of the KT which isn't in any better position but it's easier to use and has direct impact on your offensive capabilities.

As someone else mentioned there are still the problems of it's MG revealing it's position and it's rockets hitting some small obstacles along the way to it's intended target which prematurely denotes it, I didn't think about it now and I always thought that it was my own mistake but the reality is that the rocket appears to be a big object so it makes sense that it's hitting some small objects rendering it's combat capabilities 50% less useful.

And I again wanted to take a moment to talk about Planet Smasher's Artillery Pit and how it will solve several problems that the British are having:

You will have a mobile mortar which means on demand smoke, right now the only units having smoke abilities are the mortar pit which is static, the Cromwell and the Comet, the Comet being locked behind Hammer.

The Mortar pit itself will not be removed, it will just be repurposed as a garrisonable emplacement which will add to the British and their mortar's uniqueness while also providing the Sappers with their own sort of trench defensive structure which they can build and garrison.

So effectively it's hitting 3 birds with one stone while keeping the mortar pit but making it more practical and I'd argue that it would make the British and their mortar even more unique since bonuses or a sort of IS cover/garrison bonus could be given to the mortars when they're garrisoned inside the pit, Planet Smasher has given the mortars increased range and access to WP shells for example.

Here is the link to the workshop item: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=679152285

It will not change a hell of a lot but it will make the mortar pit more practical and fix what's left of the British in order to make them viable for smaller team games again while also sorting out any worries about their indirect fire capabilities and how to balance them and so forth.

Covering fire was also overnerfed, is it really worth it to lock down your squad for 35% penalty for enemy?

I tried to use this ability but I cannot work out any scenario where you'd want to render the squad combat ineffective in exchange for slowing down another squad a bit and reducing its combat effectiveness by a third. In any 1v1 scenario the ability makes you worse off for using it and in combined arms the only use I could find is to try and prevent a squad from closing in fast enough to get off a snare. All other infantry combat scenarios you again are worse off for using the ability, at least it seemed so for me :/

Can the ability be used on retreating squads? I mean there would be a use there to try and get a wipe by slowing it but then again, you need other units nearby to do damage.

Elite Armor:

SturmTiger vet changes feel good.

The Vet 1 ability is still useless however. It collides with most debris in its path causing it to detonate prematurely and even when you do manage to hit infantry with it you'll usually only kill 1 model. Please just replace it with long range smoke grenades or phosphorus like the Sherman or Crom/Comets.

The main rocket still colliding with debris is also really frustrating and needs to go away.


Overwatch:

I don't see myself ever picking this commander over fortifications. Give it back an airplane bombing ability that is more straight forward than the wonky ability it had before. The commander needs a defining point and right now that's the trololo goliath.

Glad to see the old demo restriction removed from infiltration commandos they can do their job again.

Elite Armor:

SturmTiger vet changes feel good.

The Vet 1 ability is still useless however. It collides with most debris in its path causing it to detonate prematurely and even when you do manage to hit infantry with it you'll usually only kill 1 model. Please just replace it with long range smoke grenades or phosphorus like the Sherman or Crom/Comets.

The main rocket still colliding with debris is also really frustrating and needs to go away.


Overwatch:

I don't see myself ever picking this commander over fortifications. Give it back an airplane bombing ability that is more straight forward than the wonky ability it had before. The commander needs a defining point and right now that's the trololo goliath.

Finally "Overwatch" is getting some deserved attention and feedback. As you,blvckdream and others mentioned this doctrine is underwhelming right now and need some buffs.

Let us summarize potential options to make it worthwhile for teamgames. I come back to ideas suggested in this thread:

Community ideas for "Overwatch":

• Lower CP of JLI to 1 or even 0
  
• Give it some form of airstrike (Stuka strafe of "Assault support" would fit nicely or Stuka loiter - could give OKW much needed AT)
  
• Maybe we can merge Goliath with "Early warning" to "Overwatch" that would free up a whole slot.
  
• Arty officer (smoke can be used in synergy with goliath)
  
• 221 Scout car
  
  "Defense of the fatherland" and "early warning" are ideal candidates to be replaced.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

Finally "Overwatch" is getting some deserved attention and feedback. As you,blvckdream and others mentioned this doctrine is underwhelming right now and need some buffs.

Let us summarize potential options to make it worthwhile for teamgames. I come back to ideas suggested in this thread:

• Lower CP of JLI to 1 or even 0
  
• Give it some form of airstrike (Stuka strafe of "Assault support" would fit nicely or Stuka loiter - could give OKW much needed AT)
  
• "Early warning" and "Defense of the fatherland" are the weakest abilities and ideal candidates to be replaced.
  
• Maybe we can merge Goliath with "Early warning" to "Overwatch" that would free up a whole slot.
  
  Doctrine could look like this then:
  
• Overwatch (Early warning+Goliath)
  
• JLI (CP1)
  
• Defense of the fatherland
  
• leFH
  
• Airstrike
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

The only unit that I can think that fits the doctrine is the 223.

I mean there's voice lines for an OKW StuG and Tiger but I don't really see how they might fit in.

Maybe letting the OKW's HQ trucks unsetup and move to act as radio cars like what SneakEye did? It'd be something unique only the Overwatch sWS could do.

Or let the normal sWS carry infantry units and allow them to reinforce, similar to what AEgion has done in his balance mod.

I mean that's really the 2 main options I see, either adding a new unit or giving the sWS-s some more utility in that upgrade for them that makes them like radio trucks.

Or maybe a Radio officer that uses the Ostheer Arty officer's model that can call in artillery and recon?

Or maybe a Radio officer that uses the Ostheer Arty officer's model that can call in artillery and recon?

Radio officer with arty and recon? Sounds great! I will edit my post above!

Sorry for the double post but I read about the Recon detachments attached to each Panzer divisions during the war and it says here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aufkl%C3%A4rungsabteilung

That they used a variant of the 250 Halftrack.



Now if possible maybe the 223's radio antenna could be used for the 250's model? I'm not entirely sure if it's doable but if so it would produce this:


Which is the Panzer Elite's "Vampyr" Halftrack that used to syphon enemy resources and deploy goliaths. It also had camo when locked-down to syphon the resources from enemy territory.

Maybe the Jaegers can come in it in a combat group and then it could be upgraded with the radio antenna similar to the 223? Or it can be given to produce the Goliaths, which it would then replace in the Commander slot. But syphoning enemy resources would be interesting to see, I think I only saw the 223 being able to do it in SneakEye's All Units Mod but I'm again not entirely sure if it was really that.

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So what you guys are saying by "linear" is that the the calculation is dynamic. Essentially if the near range is 0 and the mid range is 20 but you're currently shooting from 10, the calculation will use the value halfway between 0 and 20. If that's true then it isn't too bad, although still watching point blank misses is terrible to watch.

My idea for Overwatch was to combine Goliaths and Forward Receivers into Halftrack Defenses.
It could also steal Panzerfusiliers and Jagdtiger from Breakthrough, replacing Sector Assault and the empty slot. Lack of late game artillery would be a weakness, though.

Breakthrough would get the StuG IIIe and Tiger I with smoke.

So what you guys are saying by "linear" is that the the calculation is dynamic. Essentially if the near range is 0 and the mid range is 20 but you're currently shooting from 10, the calculation will use the value halfway between 0 and 20. If that's true then it isn't too bad, although still watching point blank misses is terrible to watch.

Since scatter distance is linearly affect by range, if the unit fire from low range then scatter is also low and the projectile might no travel enough distance to collide if it misses.

But this hardly the place to talk about it.

Since scatter distance is linearly affect by range, if the unit fire from low range then scatter is also low and the unit might no travel enough distance to collide if it misses.

Sorry if I missed it in an earlier post, but are other values like penetration also linear and does this apply to most weapons in the game (including infantry weapons)? I always kinda assumed they were just thresholds where if you were a meter over, then it’d apply the lesser value.

Elite Armour
I feel like the 221/223 is just overloaded with abilities. Change the medkits to only drop 1 box (or maybe even make it a timed AoE heal with an activation cost), remove the Riegel mines and make vet 5 give suppression or auto self-repair when locked down.
I'd like to try out the Tiger I, but it seems like the balance team is dead set on the Sturmtiger.

Overwatch
Maybe give the Goliath a Ram-like ability that gives it a temporary boost and requires a vehicle target.
The previously suggested Arty Officer could synergize well with the Goliath if it can drop smoke (Sector Smoke? ).
Otherwise, this doctrine is a tricky one indeed...

Elite Armour
I'd like to try out the Tiger I, but it seems like the balance team is dead set on the Sturmtiger.

Overwatch
Maybe give the Goliath a Ram-like ability that gives it a temporary boost and requires a vehicle target.
The previously suggested Arty Officer could synergize well with the Goliath if it can drop smoke (Sector Smoke?).

I hope that the team is more responsive to replacing the Sturmtiger after the tournament. The Sturmtiger deserves a fair chance even if want to see him replaced by Tiger I. I think a poll about this would be important to get an impression where the community stands.


Very nice idea to combine arty officer's smoke with goliath!

I hope that the team is more responsive to replacing the Sturmtiger after the tournament. The Sturmtiger deserves a fair chance even if want to see him replaced by Tiger I. I think a poll about this would be important to get an impression where the community stands.


Very nice idea to combine arty officer's smoke with goliath!

I'd still like to see the Sturmtiger turned into an SPG to be honest, even if it gets replaced in Elite Armor. I mean it's rocket did have a range of about 3 or 4 miles if I remember correctly in real life.

Turning it into a mobile B4 that could be taken out easily if not protected after firing would make it a risk vs reward unit with which I don't see anything wrong with really. And it's short range combined with the MG revealing it early and the projectile hitting objects doesn't help either, even if it can now move while reloading straight off the bat, it would be a bigger risk than just getting a KT and not bothering with the unit at all.

With the range it would gain if it were turned into an SPG the risk vs reward factor would be 50/50 somewhat, while right now it's more like 70/30 if not more % chance of you actually losing the ST because it's close to the front lines and because it's slow you can't really move it to your base sector to reload and then come back when you really need it and if we're honest here, you'll never use the unit in a 1v1 unless you really feel cheeky or see that your opponent is in a hopeless situation and just want to have some fun.

I personally would not use it over the KT in it's current state in a team game where I believe it will have a bigger chance to be seen and used. I mean sure, you'll have the backing of your team, but still, a well executed and coordinated strike would take it out no matter what you do, I've lost many vetted STs this way because even the smallest of error is taken advantage of by the enemy, after which I just say fuck it and solely rely on my KT.

GERMAN INFANTRY DOCTRINE
Veteran Squad Leaders (Title will likely be changed at some point)
-Panzergrenadiers can be upgraded with Support Package. Unlocks three abilities for 30 Munitions.
-Rudimentary Repair: Allows Panzergrenadiers to repair at a reduced rate. (1.1 vs a Pioneer's 1.6)
-Combined Arms: Panzergrenadiers gain -10% Received Accuracy and +20% speed when near vehicles.
-Mark Target/ Infantry: Panzergrenadiers can mark hostile infantry; enemy will take +25% received accuracy while the Panzergrenadiers receive +15% received accuracy. Retreating removes the penalties.

-Grenadier Veteran Squad Leader upgrade now grants -10% reduction on weapon cooldowns, +10% weapon accuracy, -10% received accuracy and reduces the cost of Medical Kits to 0.

Assault and Hold (Replaces Tactical Movement)
-Increases the accuracy of all infantry by 25% for 45 seconds
-Capture and decapture rate is increased by 100% for infantry squads.
-Costs 70 munitions

WTF is this? lol


give rifleman company "veteran surgent" upgrade ^^

- rifleman can be 6-man squad and can use sprint and field healing

- veteran surgent use 1 thompson

- cost is 60muni



why not? is it OP? u guys also will say "this is OP"?

rifleman can use 2 bar, so this is OP -> veteran squard grenadier now grants -10% reduction on weapon cooldowns, +10% weapon accuracy, -10% received accuracy and reduces the cost of Medical Kits to 0. OP??

anyway rifleman is most strong mainline infantry in coh2 -> play USF plz


utillity for PG is good, i agree too but veteran grenadier is just OP

if that patch will go on, relic must give "veteran surgent" to rifle company

Gonna have to echo the sentiments regarding the Elite Armor 221/223. Regarding it’s mines I feel like they arrive a bit late and I would very much rather have suppresion. The mines from sturmpioneers seem to me a more attractive choice in general. Also, the healing really should be AOE like what the Brit Infantry section has to differentiate it from the Sturmpioneers places crates, and being more useful in the frontline. Also, IDK about the fuel costs surrounding it. As it stands, I only see the 221/223 being useful to support a Battlegroup HQ strategy, since going for Mechanized means you probably want the Luchs and Puma combo ASAP. Also, does anyone know how much more resources I should be gaining from having it on lockdown?

... Also, does anyone know how much more resources I should be gaining from having it on lockdown?

I have not tested the unit yet, but usually you can see the return of a sector in your map.

I have not tested the unit yet, but usually you can see the return of a sector in your map.

There seems to be no change on the sector number. I placed it on a fuel point and still it only said +7 Fuel

There seems to be no change on the sector number. I placed it on a fuel point and still it only said +7 Fuel

Then you have to check your total income. Sorry I was not much help.