vickers

Basically this.
Spamming maxims vs Okw was really cheesy a couple of patches ago. Usf cannot take on team weapons strats without mortar half-tracks on narrow maps. If a faction has a weakness, people will abuse the crap out of it. I am not saying we should buff mortars, but we should look at other ways of countering mgs. Soviets, ostheer, and brits have snipers or scout cars to deal with them. Usf and okw have to flank every mg.

I've been using the Pack Howitzer to great effect myself in 2vs2, it just sucks that people above 1vs1 are catching up about dual MGs being really strong out in the open, putting them in houses actually makes it easier to deal with beyond the very early game. Annoying but not impossible to deal with, the issue in some maps where smoking an MG merely forces it to move a bit further back to instapin you up close, is just covered by a second MG because some maps have such ugly funnels that are like MOBA Lanes.

Let's make a test about Vickers op-ness. I put my hand into fire, I won so many games only because I got one Vicker into my hands as German, who needs Obersoldaten or LMG42 if you can have a sniper-mg?

Comparison DPS:
Range 5/15/30 for me relevant ranges because of importance.
Vicker:
33.3/24.7/14.2
MG34:
12.5/10.6/06.1
MG42:
28.2/23.2/12.0

At 30 range it makes same damage as Obersoldaten lmg34. It makes more than double damage e as MG34 and because of any interesting things it kills every garrison and ignores cover.

Don't forget Vickers isn't influenced by suppresion as Maxim, it will shoot and shoot and shoot.

If you say it isn't op you use it wrong. Pinning isn't the way to win. Kill the enemy instead.

So did you check the damage wise compared to Maxim, MG42 and 50cal ? All MGs have double the damage than MG34, because for some reason OKW was not designed to have a cheap mp based suppression platform and then when they added it, they basically gave it suppression but cut down damage by half.

Range 5 is never used by MGs, because you are never gonna be shooting at targets at that distance. 10/15 is more reasonable for a starter range and you would love to have the MAX range which is the distance which you are first engaging with an MG.

Even if you cut down the damage to be inferior to the MG42, it's still gonna be sniping models. Give it first burst suppression and it won't be killing models as like now, but THAT would make it OP.

What in gods name are you guys now speaking about? Mortars didn't really got a nerf, they got buffed damn hard with the garrison damage increase. It made most flame abilities obsolete. Units that really sucks are leIG18, because of no existing area damage, so don't speak about mortars.

Let's make a test about Vickers op-ness. I put my hand into fire, I won so many games only because I got one Vicker into my hands as German, who needs Obersoldaten or LMG42 if you can have a sniper-mg?

Comparison DPS:
Range 5/15/30 for me relevant ranges because of importance.
Vicker:
33.3/24.7/14.2
MG34:
12.5/10.6/06.1
MG42:
28.2/23.2/12.0

At 30 range it makes same damage as Obersoldaten lmg34. It makes more than double damage e as MG34 and because of any interesting things it kills every garrison and ignores cover.

Don't forget Vickers isn't influenced by suppresion as Maxim, it will shoot and shoot and shoot.

If you say it isn't op you use it wrong. Pinning isn't the way to win. Kill the enemy instead.

WHY would I want to kill the enemy with MGs if Sections can do it themselves, plus being mobile and can dual Bren. MGs needs to SUPPRESS first, kill second. You conveniently left out that MG42 has almost the same damage as Vickers, yet no one complained of its "OP" damage, because why?

MG42 actually suppresses infantry.

And stop fighting MGs in buildings with no grenades and you wouldn't that problem of bleeding MP(lol losing to Brits 1v1 in this patch)

Don't ask me why I want to kill enemy with MG instead of suppress, ask the Vickers.

Range 5 is the effective range of Ostheer Pios, that is why it counts. Also Ostheer has no close range abilies until Pnzgrns.

Brits get the option for double Bren, Bren carrier and Bofors (which is also op because it should have stats of OKW t3) so Vickers need stats of MG34 with its +5 range and passive pin boost. Tommyies have enouth DPS.

Don't ask me why I want to kill enemy with MG instead of suppress, ask the Vickers.

Since you're the one who started comparing irrelevant stat, you're pretty on point target to ask that.

Range 5 is the effective range of Ostheer Pios, that is why it counts. Also Ostheer has no close range abilies until Pnzgrns.

Since you seem to be masterful tactician, I've gone out of my way and prepared undefeatable battle plan for combat employment of pios at their effective range against HMGs that you and only you will be able to understand, so do not worry, none of the skill less peons in this thread, trying to disprove you, our supreme tactical commander, will come close to understanding that, the secrets will be safe.

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Don't ask me why I want to kill enemy with MG instead of suppress, ask the Vickers.

Range 5 is the effective range of Ostheer Pios, that is why it counts. Also Ostheer has no close range abilies until Pnzgrns.

Brits get the option for double Bren, Bren carrier and Bofors (which is also op because it should have stats of OKW t3) so Vickers need stats of MG34 with its +5 range and passive pin boost. Tommyies have enouth DPS.

Bofors?
Seriously? Are you Trolling? If Brits go Bofors they will get eaten by Light Vehicles because no AEC.

Bofors?
Seriously? Are you Trolling? If Brits go Bofors they will get eaten by Light Vehicles because no AEC.

Not in team games, where a single Bofors can lock down an entire chokepoint-section of the map. At least until Axis can gather enough resources to counter it.

Not in team games, where a single Bofors can lock down an entire chokepoint-section of the map.

Talk to your ally to build indirect fire and barrage it together, if it braces assault it directly, it's a "teamgame" after all.

I don't say that Bofors is a good unit, I said that its stats are complete op. It is a stationary unit, that is why it gets hard counterd by everything with more range like german bunkers or OKW t3.

For example, if it gets same stats as the OKW t3 we can also remove the limitation of Bofors or AEC. That would be one step in the right way to make UKF more balanced. And Vickers could get a nerf, because you can still build the Bofors for Suppression, MG34 clone is enouth.

You are winning over nobody to suggest making the Vickers into an mg34 clone. Even if it suppressed better its current stats encourage placing it in a trench or building and spotting for it which is high maintenance compared to most mg's but that's what gives it identity. No more clones thanks lest for once not going to hear endless whinging like when USF mortar was "op" for being a clone of the still sniper Wher mortar. If you're being overwhelmed by a Vickers nerfing it for the community split the solution to your problems. Vickers fast pin would just get nerfed by whinging and leave it crap, whereas now you give it distance to do the job or smoke it to stop it doing said job.

What in gods name are you guys now speaking about? Mortars didn't really got a nerf, they got buffed damn hard with the garrison damage increase. It made most flame abilities obsolete. Units that really sucks are leIG18, because of no existing area damage, so don't speak about mortars.

Let's make a test about Vickers op-ness. I put my hand into fire, I won so many games only because I got one Vicker into my hands as German, who needs Obersoldaten or LMG42 if you can have a sniper-mg?

Comparison DPS:
Range 5/15/30 for me relevant ranges because of importance.
Vicker:
33.3/24.7/14.2
MG34:
12.5/10.6/06.1
MG42:
28.2/23.2/12.0

At 30 range it makes same damage as Obersoldaten lmg34. It makes more than double damage e as MG34 and because of any interesting things it kills every garrison and ignores cover.

Don't forget Vickers isn't influenced by suppresion as Maxim, it will shoot and shoot and shoot.

If you say it isn't op you use it wrong. Pinning isn't the way to win. Kill the enemy instead.

You know incendiary rounds on the mg42 and 34 doubles damage, right?

I think you all don't get my point: Form me all MGs arn't a trouble, even Vickers, I can deal with that. But what I see is, if I get a Vickers into my Hands (or all other mates I know) Alliis are done.

I mostly play as Osttruppen, well Vickers is killing them fast because it seems Vickers ignores cover, but in German hands Vickers become op as hell. Osttruppen hold the line, Vickers rapes.

I don't see the point of the Vickers. Tommies are accurate, get cover-bonus and with some mun two Brens and the little op miles-bomb. Bren-Carrier can upgrade with extra MG which deal a lot of damage too... don't forget early Centaur or Bofors. Why does the Vickers deal so much damage then?

Edit: The hole game is copy and paste… where is the troble? Take things that works and optimize them.

Imagine what would happen if you'd got superior HMG42 then.

I think you all don't get my point: Form me all MGs arn't a trouble, even Vickers, I can deal with that. But what I see is, if I get a Vickers into my Hands (or all other mates I know) Alliis are done.

I mostly play as Osttruppen, well Vickers is killing them fast because it seems Vickers ignores cover, but in German hands Vickers become op as hell. Osttruppen hold the line, Vickers rapes.

I don't see the point of the Vickers. Tommies are accurate, get cover-bonus and with some mun two Brens and the little op miles-bomb. Bren-Carrier can upgrade with extra MG which deal a lot of damage too... don't forget early Centaur or Bofors. Why does the Vickers deal so much damage then?

Edit: The hole game is copy and paste… where is the troble? Take things that works and optimize them.

Considering this thread was somehow able to escape moderation due to being an obvious original troll post I’m not sure you’ll hear anyone’s explanation. We’re not going down the rabbit hole of all the other Brit units you seem to struggle with but the vickers is a high damage MG as it’s huge and severe trade off is an vanilla volk or sturmpio can immediately displace it from the field. Failing that it’s supression prior to vet 2 allows OKW and Wher ample opportunities to flank and or grenade push. The LEIG also got smoke to facilitate your issues. Late game the vickers is a very strong mg but that is certainly not a stand out issue with a vet 3 mg 42 as a comparison. This was and still is largely a troll thread from origin and the vickers being OP was when it could cross map base pin your opponent, which is long over. You would be far more upset with a vickers clones off an mg42 which is why I believe you wish it to become an mg34. That in itself isn’t much justified for the faction with a doctrinal snare and a main line inf unit that must side tech for any and all abilities and retreat to base or FOB for weapon upgrades.

.. No more clones thanks lest for once not going to hear endless whinging like when USF mortar was "op" for being a clone of the still sniper Wher mortar...

USF mortar was OP. It was superior to werh one on release. Even if it had identical stats it could still be OP since factions are designed differently.

Tbh nerfing anything british right now is just kicking them whilst they're down. UKF are so teetering on the edge of being unplayable at the moment and people are still saying they're OP?

Yeah imo, the vickers is probably one of the best MGs in the game because of its kill potential but making it an mg34 clone? Just why? Currently british infantry are crap, they lose to anything out of cover and when in cover they pretty much just lose again because they cost so much, the vickers and Universal carrier are the only things keeping early UKF infantry play afloat right now.

Considering how good mortars are against garrisons now, people really shouldn't be having a problem dealing with MGs. Might I remind everyone that Brits are the ONLY faction in the game that cannot respond to mobile mortars unless you let them build a pit as they don't have their own mortar team nor a mortar halftrack, in which case it's your fault anyway. Just build mortars, fire at the MG and then relocate and fire again. The MG will die. You've literally just countered Brits with 1 unit... congrats. GGWP

USF mortar was OP. It was superior to werh one on release. Even if it had identical stats it could still be OP since factions are designed differently.

Exactly why the Vickers can stay right where it is don’t need all the whiners again, if a mortar was OP on a snare with vet no starting mg faction god knows what a suppressive vickers will do. Then it will have the suppression nerfed and no damage leaving it useless like most suggested ideas in the past. It performs well in one category and poorly in another like most of the others, except it can’t fix that deficiency on demand or without vet 2.

USF mortar was OP. It was superior to werh one on release. Even if it had identical stats it could still be OP since factions are designed differently.

Tell that to brits fighting an ostheer mortar, or usf or brits vs a wehr sniper.