lol, will trade my vickers for mg42 and incendiary rounds vet ability any day.
if i want killing power, i would get another infantry section. if i want to hold back hordes of stg44 wielding volks with lava nades, yes i will get a machine gun instead.
fast suppression is godly in mg vs mg fights. 1st mg to gets suppressed gets a huge dps cut and gets rekt.
what you smoking man.
vickers
17 Aug 2018, 11:57 AM
#21
Posts: 647
17 Aug 2018, 12:04 PM
#22
Posts: 223
Look at these people saying Vickers is OP, look at them. 
I would take a MG42 that suppresses more than Vickers that can't suppress unless enemy is in red cover or get shot at for 5 seconds otherwise.
I would take a MG42 that suppresses more than Vickers that can't suppress unless enemy is in red cover or get shot at for 5 seconds otherwise.
Fail of War 3 
17 Aug 2018, 15:48 PM
#23
Posts: 1392
Then give Vickers same stats as MG34 or Maxim, then you will see what you get.
I don't know what noob spam games you all play, that you all need so much suppression.
I don't know what noob spam games you all play, that you all need so much suppression.
17 Aug 2018, 16:13 PM
#24
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Then give Vickers same stats as MG34 or Maxim, then you will see what you get.
I don't know what noob spam games you all play, that you all need so much suppression.
I don't know what noob spam games you play, where you think its a good idea to get HMG for anything else then suppression, considering the fact that suppression is -primary- function of -all- HMGs, you've got to be in pretty low scrub league to even consider using it for anything else then suppression, unless we talk incendiary rounds vs careless light.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
17 Aug 2018, 17:39 PM
#25
Posts: 1392
Then let's nerf Vickers into ground for some suppression? I am in! ;D
17 Aug 2018, 17:54 PM
#26
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Then let's nerf Vickers into ground for some suppression? I am in! ;D
Careful what you wish for. Also not sure (not) why you keep mentioning MG34 and Maxims, when there is a perfect T0 MG which could be mirrored to and be even more "OP" than now.
After so many iterations, i think it's in a fine spot, specially after nerfing the extended range and giving it suppression at vet 2.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
17 Aug 2018, 18:08 PM
#27
Posts: 1392
Because it makes way to much damage versus garrisons and units in cover, that is why it is so op. For me that counts more than insta pin, it is easy to get 30 kills with a Vickers.
17 Aug 2018, 20:37 PM
#28
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Because it makes way to much damage versus garrisons and units in cover, that is why it is so op. For me that counts more than insta pin, it is easy to get 30 kills with a Vickers.
Prefacing by saying that if someone wants to correct me if anything has been changed.
Cruzz latest dps table. Download it and open it with any browser.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8
No one is sane to be headtanking an MG at range 0-10, so the edge on DPS at point blank range compared to any of the other MGs is negligible (except mg34/Dhska).
So why is it on averaging raking more kills? Unless something changed, there's a mechanic applied to units under suppression which grants penalties on units firing under them.
IIRC it was like 50% less dps (probably an accuracy modifier), so if a unit takes longer to get suppressed, it actually takes more damage.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
17 Aug 2018, 21:29 PM
#29
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
IIRC it was like 50% less dps (probably an accuracy modifier), so if a unit takes longer to get suppressed, it actually takes more damage.
+if a unit takes longer to get suppressed, it may have enough time to throw that nade or get out of the firing arc, making HMG much, much easier to counter.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Aug 2018, 07:04 AM
#30
Posts: 223
I'm not saying I'm good in 1v1 like the ones in GCS, but if you decide to "nerf" its quote by quote "OP" damage for insta-suppression, then you might as well surrender as OKW vs Brits. So careful what you wish for.
As Axis I would rather sacrifice a model or two to force off Vickers than floating MP with no map control whatsoever.
As Axis I would rather sacrifice a model or two to force off Vickers than floating MP with no map control whatsoever.
Fail of War 3
18 Aug 2018, 11:59 AM
#31
Posts: 647
I'm not saying I'm good in 1v1 like the ones in GCS, but if you decide to "nerf" its quote by quote "OP" damage for insta-suppression, then you might as well surrender as OKW vs Brits. So careful what you wish for.
As Axis I would rather sacrifice a model or two to force off Vickers than floating MP with no map control whatsoever.
shhhhhh dont let them know. insta pin plus early frag nades in the same tier? yas pls.
18 Aug 2018, 15:28 PM
#32
Posts: 5279
+if a unit takes longer to get suppressed, it may have enough time to throw that nade or get out of the firing arc, making HMG much, much easier to counter.
Which imo is the biggest problem with the Vicky as well as the Maxim. This is particularly bad with the lava nade with no wind up and guaranteed degarrison/forced reposition.
#stalinwept
18 Aug 2018, 16:20 PM
#33
Posts: 450
A lot of the issues comes from mg being able to be spammed. One mg is easy to take on, but multiple mgs, covering each other, is broken and cheesy. This is especially hard on Usf and okw, who lack hard counters. I would add a munitions cost to mgs in coh3 to keep them from being spammed but still good on their own.
18 Aug 2018, 17:47 PM
#34
1 
Posts: 2885
A lot of the issues comes from mg being able to be spammed. One mg is easy to take on, but multiple mgs, covering each other, is broken and cheesy. This is especially hard on Usf and okw, who lack hard counters. I would add a munitions cost to mgs in coh3 to keep them from being spammed but still good on their own.
Vickers, being the second most expensive mg in the game and having the performance of the cheapest one is not particularly spammable. I think everybody would agree to price it higher, like DShK, to avoid spam if it was to get some actual supression.
18 Aug 2018, 17:52 PM
#35
Posts: 393
I'm on the train of thought that having HMGs cover each other is not "broken" or "cheesy" but rather, is effective strategy. Instead of nerfing the HMGs, just buff the hard counters? That used to be Mortars, back in my day. 
18 Aug 2018, 21:24 PM
#36
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
But they nerfed Mortars in general because a pair of them could punish any attempt to use cover.
18 Aug 2018, 23:15 PM
#37
Posts: 5279
But they nerfed Mortars in general because a pair of them could punish any attempt to use cover.
But they still have smoke
#stalinwept
18 Aug 2018, 23:33 PM
#38
Posts: 450
But they still have smoke
The player needs nades to kill models though.
18 Aug 2018, 23:40 PM
#39
Posts: 450
But they nerfed Mortars in general because a pair of them could punish any attempt to use cover.
Basically this.
Spamming maxims vs Okw was really cheesy a couple of patches ago. Usf cannot take on team weapons strats without mortar half-tracks on narrow maps. If a faction has a weakness, people will abuse the crap out of it. I am not saying we should buff mortars, but we should look at other ways of countering mgs. Soviets, ostheer, and brits have snipers or scout cars to deal with them. Usf and okw have to flank every mg.
19 Aug 2018, 00:02 AM
#40
Posts: 1392
What in gods name are you guys now speaking about? Mortars didn't really got a nerf, they got buffed damn hard with the garrison damage increase. It made most flame abilities obsolete. Units that really sucks are leIG18, because of no existing area damage, so don't speak about mortars.
Let's make a test about Vickers op-ness. I put my hand into fire, I won so many games only because I got one Vicker into my hands as German, who needs Obersoldaten or LMG42 if you can have a sniper-mg?
Comparison DPS:
Range 5/15/30 for me relevant ranges because of importance.
Vicker:
33.3/24.7/14.2
MG34:
12.5/10.6/06.1
MG42:
28.2/23.2/12.0
At 30 range it makes same damage as Obersoldaten lmg34. It makes more than double damage e as MG34 and because of any interesting things it kills every garrison and ignores cover.
Don't forget Vickers isn't influenced by suppresion as Maxim, it will shoot and shoot and shoot.
If you say it isn't op you use it wrong. Pinning isn't the way to win. Kill the enemy instead.
Let's make a test about Vickers op-ness. I put my hand into fire, I won so many games only because I got one Vicker into my hands as German, who needs Obersoldaten or LMG42 if you can have a sniper-mg?
Comparison DPS:
Range 5/15/30 for me relevant ranges because of importance.
Vicker:
33.3/24.7/14.2
MG34:
12.5/10.6/06.1
MG42:
28.2/23.2/12.0
At 30 range it makes same damage as Obersoldaten lmg34. It makes more than double damage e as MG34 and because of any interesting things it kills every garrison and ignores cover.
Don't forget Vickers isn't influenced by suppresion as Maxim, it will shoot and shoot and shoot.
If you say it isn't op you use it wrong. Pinning isn't the way to win. Kill the enemy instead.
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