USF infantry upgrade

Just that it's common doesn't mean it isn't a constraint. Ostheer is forced to invest in T1 structure just to field an infantry presence which means they take longer to tech up. So it is a good point.

Ost is balanced around having all tiers up and not skipping them, getting P4 takes just as much time as getting other meds out, so absolutely nothing "slows down" their tech, they are literally balanced around that.
Its not constraint, its literally how the faction is designed and supposed to work.

You can't win vs grenadiers without losing models as USF thus bleeding. Or that means you have all the RNG god favors. Should I really explain you the range and cover mechanism to let you see that grens are naturally better at max range and since USF troop hadn't develop personal teleporter at that time they need to take damage and lose models in order to reach their optimal fighting range. That's part of the principle behind Gren4men Rifle5men squads.
So yes your argumentation is wrong, you'll always bleed more as USF whenever you dominate or be dominated.

And to comeback to what I say, this is an issue today because USF bleeding more was balanced with the fact USF had better early game in the past. But successive patch to nerf USF early game made gren powerness a lot closer to riflemen which break this balance between both units. We would never see everyone using builds with 4 gren squad and super late T2 if it wasn't the case.

Also I recommend you (and anyone) to watch players manpower flux on replay or livetwitch, it is incredible how much manpower you can bank with those popular and powerful strats like 4gren or 4volks.
This is why, in my opinion, the actual balance problem (execpt UKF) doesn't lie in units stat but factions economy. Those strats are in fact too safe economically speaking.

Unlike what you claim, it's actually possible to win engagements and come out ahead MP-wise as every faction. What you are claiming is that in every situation, USF loses mp-wise, which is utter bs. Not to mention the fact that countless posters have already pointed out Riflemen's superior veterancy and scaling make up for the early game weakness with cost-efficient trading in the mid and late game. We are almost the same rank as USF, so it's not even possible to justify your incredibly biased and lopsided view.

USF's weak early game is definitely something to be looked at, but not through spreading outright lies like the way you're doing. The worst thing is that we actually agree that USF has a weak early game and that the sandbag issue is a problem.

USF's weak early game is definitely something to be looked at, but not through spreading outright lies like the way you're doing. The worst thing is that we actually agree that USF has a weak early game and that the sandbag issue is a problem.

It´s not USF´s weak early game that is the problem but OKW´s ridiculously strong early game (in 2v2). Soviets have the same issues (to a lesser extend) and Brits just suck during the entire game. There are maps where OKW can just rush and blob your cut-off and you are basically done for. Moscow North is still a great example for that, or Charkov north. There is not much USF can do in these situations unless OKW player makes mistakes/plays worse than you. Sure USF can come back vs OKW because of their potentially better mid-game but the lead OKW can gain in the first minutes is often just too big to close unless OKW player throws his LV or P4s.

Unlike what you claim, it's actually possible to win engagements and come out ahead MP-wise as every faction. What you are claiming is that in every situation, USF loses mp-wise, which is utter bs. Not to mention the fact that countless posters have already pointed out Riflemen's superior veterancy and scaling make up for the early game weakness with cost-efficient trading in the mid and late game. We are almost the same rank as USF, so it's not even possible to justify your incredibly biased and lopsided view.

USF's weak early game is definitely something to be looked at, but not through spreading outright lies like the way you're doing. The worst thing is that we actually agree that USF has a weak early game and that the sandbag issue is a problem.

So first paragraph: USF early game is fine because reasons... second paragrah USF early game weakness is something to be looked at. Effectively with such way of argumenting you cannot lose.
I don't know what lie I am spreading, USF bleeding more than Ostheer is just the basic understanding of the matchup since day one. USF need to reduce the bleed the maximum while keeping the pressure and Ostheer need to bleed them harder while keeping the line. Why do you think USF need light vehicle: to keep the pressure and reduce the bleed. Why Ostheer always had a poor AI performance light vehicle: to not break this balance.

And by the way USF riflemen superior veterancy is there to compete with panzergrenadiers, not grenadiers. You can't just spam grenadiers, skip panzergrenadiers and complain that riflemen outscale you late game.

Unlike what you claim, it's actually possible to win engagements and come out ahead MP-wise as every faction. What you are claiming is that in every situation, USF loses mp-wise, which is utter bs. Not to mention the fact that countless posters have already pointed out Riflemen's superior veterancy and scaling make up for the early game weakness with cost-efficient trading in the mid and late game. We are almost the same rank as USF, so it's not even possible to justify your incredibly biased and lopsided view.

USF's weak early game is definitely something to be looked at, but not through spreading outright lies like the way you're doing. The worst thing is that we actually agree that USF has a weak early game and that the sandbag issue is a problem.

USF is weak all stage of the game ATM IMO. Here is why, riflemen don't out scale axis infantry. Vet 3 and vet 5 volks is much durable and has more utility than riflemen. They gain vet much faster than the riflemen too, since they can engage at long range and retreat when less favorable matchups. It is often the case volks KDA is better than RM. And for some reason one Panzerfaust gives you insane amount of xp. Not to mention OKW can make ober which dominate riflemen.
USF naturally does not have a late game infantry units like the ober, you have to preserve the riflemen and its vet. 20mins into the game, a fresh RM squad it is even harder for them to kill units and gain vets. On the other hand axis still can stay at max range get model drops,and gain vets since RM vet3 at long range really doesn't do dps.

So a faction suppose to have the strongest infantry lose infantry fight all stage of the game? huh?

Someone of you might say ranger and paratroopers. Lucs, flame half-track, 222 and puma with smoke meta makes easy manpower bleed.
USF has light vehicles too, but it is also naturally at disadvantage. USF AA halftrack vs OKW AA, OKW has an at gun that doesn't require tech. One puma outclasses all USF light vehicles.
Really unless you out skill your opponent, USF hard to play.
Most people build WC truck nowadays to gain the advantage early.

I really miss the old coh meta, where allies win the early game with infantry, and mid game could go either way. Late game axis can make comebacks with their heavy tank on little vps they have left.

Here is why, riflemen don't out scale axis infantry. Vet 3 and vet 5 volks is much durable and has more utility than riflemen.

You make some valid points overall but I disagree with this.

Vet 3 RM with double Bar or LMG/Bar combo are better than Vet5 Volks despite not being able to build sandbags. Other than that they have the same "utility". Now does that make USF late game better than OKW late game? Not really, but at least it compensates a little bit.

Ost is balanced around having all tiers up and not skipping them, getting P4 takes just as much time as getting other meds out, so absolutely nothing "slows down" their tech, they are literally balanced around that.
Its not constraint, its literally how the faction is designed and supposed to work.

I meant mostly that while other factions have options in their early-mid game (Soviets can either go T1 or T2; OKW can go T1 or T2, USF can choose Lt or Captain), Ostheer does not because their only infantry (except Osttruppen doc) is tied to T1. It forces them to go T1 basically all the time. There is no room for adaptable build/tech orders. It is a constraint IMO.

So when do all the “USF only” players try playing what gives them trouble and see how their opponents deal with it?

IMO if you freed up some resource strains such as tech costs or simply the MP base cost of rifles by even something as such as 270 and 26mp reinforce it might be enough to help USF stay in.

Their tech desperately needs restructured in my opinion.

You make some valid points overall but I disagree with this.

Vet 3 RM with double Bar or LMG/Bar combo are better than Vet5 Volks despite not being able to build sandbags. Other than that they have the same "utility". Now does that make USF late game better than OKW late game? Not really, but at least it compensates a little bit.

Panzerfaust is instant snare vs rifle nade takes a while, and sometimes when a unit uses smoke it bugged out. Rifle vet 3 late game is okay, just not great. But before you get vet3 rifle is squishy, so the problem is how to survive the early game with much less manpower bleed. Imagine if you lose a rifle squad early, the impact on the USF player vs lose a volk squad early. I had some many games where I wiped volks squad early vs OKW player, they still had okay mid game when the lucs comes out. But as USF losing RM early could be the end of the game.

USF is weak all stage of the game ATM IMO. Here is why, riflemen don't out scale axis infantry. Vet 3 and vet 5 volks is much durable and has more utility than riflemen. They gain vet much faster than the riflemen too, since they can engage at long range and retreat when less favorable matchups. It is often the case volks KDA is better than RM.

Completely wrong. Of course, since you don't play the Axis factions at all, I wouldn't expect reasonable comments even remotely grounded in reality.

Riflemen have way better RA bonuses than any other mainline infantry. Iirc, it's 0.6 at Vet 3. Volks are nowhere close to Rifles in either offense or defense in the mid to late game. USF infantry outscale OKW and Ost infantry so hard it's not even funny. Only way for Ost infantry to survive is to stick together in blobs, and Obers take a good while to reach Vet 2, which is plenty of time for USF rifles to dominate.

Vet 3 double barred rifles can a-move any squad and force them into a retreat - even vs vetted Obers. Panzergrens are a joke vs Riflemen. They're going to bleed insane amounts and lose in most/all situations vs a Vet 3 double BAR rifle squad.

Completely wrong. Of course, since you don't play the Axis factions at all, I wouldn't expect reasonable comments even remotely grounded in reality.

Riflemen have way better RA bonuses than any other mainline infantry. Iirc, it's 0.6 at Vet 3. Volks are nowhere close to Rifles in either offense or defense in the mid to late game. USF infantry outscale OKW and Ost infantry so hard it's not even funny. Only way for Ost infantry to survive is to stick together in blobs, and Obers take a good while to reach Vet 2, which is plenty of time for USF rifles to dominate.

Vet 3 double barred rifles can a-move any squad and force them into a retreat - even vs vetted Obers. Panzergrens are a joke vs Riflemen. They're going to bleed insane amounts and lose in most/all situations vs a Vet 3 double BAR rifle squad.

You ranked 100, I am sure you are better than me. I am just a noob.

IMO if you freed up some resource strains such as tech costs or simply the MP base cost of rifles by even something as such as 270 and 26mp reinforce it might be enough to help USF stay in.

Ost exists too and grens are already grossly outclassed by rifles unless supported by a collection of team weapons AND green cover. Making the investment less isn't Going to bake the balance better

Ok why? No other faction has smoke on mainline infantry, and it made flanking less of a requirement. You could just run into an MG arc and drop a smoke from mainline infantry.

Because no other faction has to pay out the ass for upgrades (except up ukf who need big changes to IS and snare). As mentioned you not only have to pay for grenades but they just suck compared to okw Inc nades

USF need small adjustments to help their midgame, M20 cost decrease and smoke for rifles and it would be fine imo.

They are already a muni strapped faction so it's balanced. (It's already impossible to fit in M20 skirts, grenades and grenade smoke AND trying to find muni for bar, mines and Zook to counter luch)

Because no other faction has to pay out the ass for upgrades (except up ukf who need big changes to IS and snare). As mentioned you not only have to pay for grenades but they just suck compared to okw Inc nades

USF need small adjustments to help their midgame, M20 cost decrease and smoke for rifles and it would be fine imo.

They are already a muni strapped faction so it's balanced. (It's already impossible to fit in M20 skirts, grenades and grenade smoke AND trying to find muni for bar, mines and Zook to counter luch)

Good thing those side grades are compensated for with extra starting resources, free squads, super cost efficient scaling infantry etc.

Want to see a muni strapped faction? Try ostheer. They require munis for infantry just to stay relevant.

Light vehicles giving you trouble? Try an AT gun.

Honestly USF is very strong when you know what you’re doing with the faction. I personally only played 150 games and am currently top100 and exceeding my OKW which I have far more games as. USF is probably tied for best late game faction currently against soviets with the HE Sherman, Jackson on AT, Scott as a solid piece of indirect and many of the strong doctrinal as well. Easy eights are fantastic in 1v1 and even 2v2 against armor, and the Pershing is as good as the former KT.

This faction is only weak to snipers, MG spam on thin maps, and their awful tech fork. Get past that and you’re golden.

Cant survive because the early game is super rough? Good thing VPs prevent the game from ending at 10 minutes... 2 years ago OKW was the late game faction and USF was the early game strong faction. Now we’re on the opposite side because everyone complained they couldn’t “win early game”. So how do you lose “early game” now?

Good thing those side grades are compensated for with extra starting resources, free squads, super cost efficient scaling infantry etc.

Want to see a muni strapped faction? Try ostheer. They require munis for infantry just to stay relevant.

Light vehicles giving you trouble? Try an AT gun.

Honestly USF is very strong when you know what you’re doing with the faction. I personally only played 150 games and am currently top100 and exceeding my OKW which I have far more games as. USF is probably tied for best late game faction currently against soviets with the HE Sherman, Jackson on AT, Scott as a solid piece of indirect and many of the strong doctrinal as well. Easy eights are fantastic in 1v1 and even 2v2 against armor, and the Pershing is as good as the former KT.

This faction is only weak to snipers, MG spam on thin maps, and their awful tech fork. Get past that and you’re golden.

Cant survive because the early game is super rough? Good thing VPs prevent the game from ending at 10 minutes... 2 years ago OKW was the late game faction and USF was the early game strong faction. Now we’re on the opposite side because everyone complained they couldn’t “win early game”. So how do you lose “early game” now?

Is ostheer vs USF muni strapped? Maybe in past, but you always have the spare muni to blow on teller or two.

These days you just build a sniper and 222 to deal most DPS, grens don't really need MG42 to support your MG team or sniper until late game.

If you went for some meme flamer HT build I would agree, but ostheer can deal a lot more DPS Vs USF than USF can Vs ost with mp and minimal muni alone midgame.

Also in regards to USF lategame I would say it is strong with Pershing or lmg paras but...

Current Wehr defensive tank meta is slightly better, once Ost has a command aura blob of double sniper, vet 3 green, couple stugs and p werfer backed up by tellers USF meta is countered hard. You just get whittled down where USF will usually have the edge over OKW with their armour play backed up with vet 3 rifles.

Is ostheer vs USF muni strapped? Maybe in past, but you always have the spare muni to blow on teller or two.

These days you just build a sniper and 222 to deal most DPS, grens don't really need MG42 to support your MG team or sniper until late game.

If you went for some meme flamer HT build I would agree, but ostheer can deal a lot more DPS Vs USF than USF can Vs ost with mp and minimal muni alone midgame.

Might have something to do with the fact USFs mainline has to charge in to get optimal DPS vs grens. Sniper bleed, efficiency of the 222. But somehow a faction that has “enough munis for a teller or 2” and needs to buy medics for munis somehow is less muni strapped then a faction that literally only uses munis for upgrades or off maps is an otherworldly assumption.

That isn’t a muni problem. That’s a sniper, and imo, asymmetric design problem.

Also in regards to USF lategame I would say it is strong with Pershing or lmg paras but...

Current Wehr defensive tank meta is slightly better, once Ost has a command aura blob of double sniper, vet 3 green, couple stugs and p werfer backed up by tellers USF meta is countered hard. You just get whittled down where USF will usually have the edge over OKW with their armour play backed up with vet 3 rifles.

Jackson’s out range ostheer armor. The real problem I find with USF is getting vision for those Jackson’s. M20 is great but it’s squishy for lategame and the recon pass is just that, a single pass. It’s why I love flares, unfortunately the EZ8 and Jackson overlap a bit in terms of AT and lacking AI so selecting rifle co is hesitant for me.

Might have something to do with the fact USFs mainline has to charge in to get optimal DPS vs grens. Sniper bleed, efficiency of the 222. But somehow a faction that has “enough munis for a teller or 2” and needs to buy medics for munis somehow is less muni strapped then a faction that literally only uses munis for upgrades or off maps is an otherworldly assumption.

That isn’t a muni problem. That’s a sniper, and imo, asymmetric design problem.

Sniper is also an issue where smoke can help make counterplay better

Imo decrease rifle vet 3 slightly (middle ground between gren vet and current rifle vet). Nerf Pershing wipes, add smoke back to rifles and decrease M20 to 200mp like 222.

Possibly make AAHT worse with suppression but slightly cheaper so it's not an insta pick every game. Small changes like this are all that's needed imo, as well as a few ost changes to puma and command tank meta wrecking mid game