SU-76

Before the recent april patch the SU-76 and its cousin the StuG were definitely overperforming units in their respective factions however whereas the StuG remains an ok unit for its price the SU-76 is now extremely bad at both AT and AI roles... i feel the double whammy nerf to its AT and AI capabilities is simply too extreme for the SU-76 which now sort of underperforms for its price... a jack of all trades that performs badly at either role

options:
1. (anti medium tank)... do the first iteration of the SU-76 where it had high long range accuracy and kept its old ROF but with lower long range penetration to keep its efficiency vs mediums... barrage ability reverted aswell... kinda intersects with the SU-85 tbh

2. (anti infantry tank)... replace the barrage ability with an HE shell ability similar to the sherman...nerf current AT capabilities if need be...

3. revert either the AT or the AI nerf but not both...

personally id like the second option.. as it would give a good choice between the T-70.. a turreted reconnaissance light tank and a more lategame AT capable light artillery vehicle

Actually SU-76 continues to have ridiculously low XP value and very powerful vet bonuses.

By vet 2 the barrage is probably more powerful than it used to be.

SU76 is fine IMO...Just not OP anymore. It encourages you to tech to T4, which is a good thing.

Actually SU-76 continues to have ridiculously low XP value and very powerful vet bonuses.

By vet 2 the barrage is probably more powerful than it used to be.

but then retaining
1. awful longrange accuracy coupled with reduced long range DPM due to the nerf

2. a 35 muni cost on top of the worse vet 0 barrage...

and if XP value is the issue then its a simple matter of nerfing the XP requirements... the SU-76 is supposed to be a stopgap AT platform-capable HE platform as it was irl... SU-76s continued to be used till the end of ww2 and were the soviets main form of self propelled artillery like a priest or a wespe... but capable of going in like an assault gun... a job it kinda does badly now after the patch

SU76 is fine IMO...Just not OP anymore. It encourages you to tech to T4, which is a good thing.

its a good stopgap AT platform but is a pretty bad anti infantry platform now with the 35 point muni cost added to it... the problem is once you have teched to T4 the SU-76 becomes fully redundant... the katyusha/T-34 is better at killing infantry and the SU-85 is better at killing tanks... the other T3 units... the T-70 and the m5 HT still retain their uses as a recon tank and a reinforcement truck respectively... not to mention that recon tank wipes better than the T-34 does...

its a good stopgap AT platform but is a pretty bad anti infantry platform now with the 35 point muni cost added to it

I can't believe people are actually complaining that the AI ability an ANTI-TANK vehicle has isn't incredibly good. Be glad it has one in the first place. I wish Stugs and Jagdpanzers could also magically serve as artillery vehicles.

I can't believe people are actually complaining that the AI ability an ANTI-TANK vehicle has isn't incredibly good. Be glad it has one in the first place.

its actually a dual purpose assault gun... a stopgap AT unit that becomes the primary SPG/assault gun of the soviets later in the war... its mainly supposed to be an anti infantry unit in that sense..

the full designation of its main gun... the zis 3 is the 76-mm divisional gun M1942... compared to dedicated AT guns like the zis 2 which had a designation of 57 mm anti-tank gun M1943... and was used as an artillerypiece moreoften than not

I wish Stugs and Jagdpanzers could also magically serve as artillery vehicles.

i wish the SU-76 had .4 long range accuracy more HP and 160 damage on its main gun... and had target weakpoint and stealth capabilities

I wish the puma shot tactical nukes.

but then retaining
1. awful longrange accuracy coupled with reduced long range DPM due to the nerf

2. a 35 muni cost on top of the worse vet 0 barrage...

The barrage it has is better than that of mortar at vet 0, since its kill radius is 1.5.

By vet 2 which is about the Same XP for a vet 1 stug, it get x130 accuracy and has near 73% to score a "natural" hit on PzIV at range 60. Not sure why you call that "awful" especially since collision increases the changes.

The barrage it has is better than that of mortar at vet 0, since its kill radius is 1.5.

By vet 2 which is about the Same XP for a vet 1 stug, it get x130 accuracy and has near 73% to score a "natural" hit on PzIV at range 60. Not sure why you call that "awful" especially since collision increases the changes.

1. it costs 35 munitions to do that barrage and cannot autofire... its AT capabilities are now horrible aswell... at least without veterancy

2. "and if XP value is the issue then its a simple matter of nerfing the XP requirements"

the soviets arent supposed to be the veteran`s faction thats okw... if veterancy is a problem then a vet nerf wont hurt

its actually a dual purpose assault gun... a stopgap AT unit that becomes the primary SPG/assault gun of the soviets later in the war... its mainly supposed to be an anti infantry unit in that sense..

the full designation of its main gun... the zis 3 is the 76-mm divisional gun M1942... compared to dedicated AT guns like the zis 2 which had a designation of 57 mm anti-tank gun M1943... and was used as an artillerypiece moreoften than not

The 76mm HE wasn't any more powerful than other tank guns and army designations do not prove anything (Panther 'medium' tank or light/heavy cruisers are just some examples). Stug literally stands for Sturmgeschütz (Assault gun) but that one can't fire HE shells? Su-76 wasn't extensively used for indirect fire either because it was rather ineffective at it.

So in conclusion the AI barrage is just a game design choice to add variety. Which is good and all, but it shouldn't be that good because it would make the vehicle too effective for its cost.


As for its AT I agree I would've preferred to see a penetration nerf instead of ROF but apparently testing showed that it wasn't a very effective nerf.

2. "and if XP value is the issue then its a simple matter of nerfing the XP requirements"

the soviets arent supposed to be the veteran`s faction thats okw... if veterancy is a problem then a vet nerf wont hurt

It was pointed out many times from many people including me for at least the last couple of years. Relic chose not increase XP value for reasons unknown.

Generally Relic seems to forget to check balance once units vet up and there are many unit that are OP at high veterancy.

If you want to compare it with Stug keep in mind that it is cheaper and has lower tech cost, while having more range and penetration. The unit is not bad in AT role.

The 76mm HE wasn't any more powerful than other tank guns and army designations do not prove anything (Panther 'medium' tank or light/heavy cruisers are just some examples). Stug literally stands for Sturmgeschütz (Assault gun) but that one can't fire HE shells? Su-76 wasn't extensively used for indirect fire either because it was rather ineffective at it.

So in conclusion the AI barrage is just a game design choice to add variety. Which is good and all, but it shouldn't be that good because it would make the vehicle too effective for its cost.


As for its AT I agree I would've preferred to see a penetration nerf instead of ROF but apparently testing showed that it wasn't a very effective nerf.

1. the 76mm actually had superior HE filler and fragmentation to the PAK 40 on the stug as it had less burst filler in it thanks to the much higher velocity...meanwhile its HE filler was only slightly smaller than the 75mm m3 of the sherman but had superior fragmentation capability... more or less equal to the 75mm m3...

2. it could be used as indirect fire but its shells werent comparable to the larger guns which gave it inferior performance compared to howitzers... still id say those shells are better off than mortar shells and the game does reflect this in many ways... regardless it was used alot in this role when heavier artillery such as 152mms and 122mms were unavailable

3. nerfing the SU-76`s AT along with nerfing its AI simply renders the unit pointless when T4 arrives... even the T-70 and the m5 halftrack at least have niche uses they remain good at...but the SU-76 is fully obsolete by T4... at least buffing its anti infantry capability or giving it a role of anti medium should give it an overall purpose even with T4 around...

It was pointed out many times from many people including me for at least the last couple of years. Relic chose not increase XP value for reasons unknown.

Generally Relic seems to forget to check balance once units vet up and there are many unit that are OP at high veterancy.

If you want to compare it with Stug keep in mind that it is cheaper and has lower tech cost, while having more range and penetration. The unit is not bad in AT role.

soo how about nerfing the vet costs and vet bonuses and giving it good at or good anti infantry...

as for the stug
1. close range penetration is the same

2. accuracy is soo bad that 60 more range doesnt really matter with .25 acc vs .4

I have used a few times in team games lately, and It's not bad at all, the only real problem is the low damage, I think It should scale with veterancy. same thing with stugs, they are just too good right now.

The barrage busy needs to be a very ability. Do that and call it a day

soo how about nerfing the vet costs and vet bonuses and giving it good at or good anti infantry...

as for the stug
1. close range penetration is the same

2. accuracy is soo bad that 60 more range doesnt really matter with .25 acc vs .4

You are actually mistaken

1) Stug has penetration 200 at range 25 Su-76 has the same at range 30.
In addition this is simply misleading both unit are in trouble if the enemy unit are bellow that range.

2) Again you can not compare the accuracy at range 60 with the accuracy at range 50, this is again misleading. As I have point by vet 2 Su-76 has little trouble hitting a PzIv at max range.

Given the cost and tech cost and the cost of enemy tanks the unit is hardly bad.

i wish the SU-76 had .4 long range accuracy more HP and 160 damage on its main gun... and had target weakpoint and stealth capabilities

u know, the radar and the 60 range are not bad

You are actually mistaken

1) Stug has penetration 200 at range 25 Su-76 has the same at range 30.
In addition this is simply misleading both unit are in trouble if the enemy unit are bellow that range.

2) Again you can not compare the accuracy at range 60 with the accuracy at range 50, this is again misleading. As I have point by vet 2 Su-76 has little trouble hitting a PzIv at max range.

Given the cost and tech cost and the cost of enemy tanks the unit is hardly bad.

1. mmkay ill take that one... however it must be noted that almost all high armor units are all in the axis faction... high penetration on an axis AT platform only really helps against the IS-2 ISU-152 pershing churchill and comet... 2 of those tanks belonging to the weakest faction ingame in contrast to the tiger/ace panther/okw/command elefant jagdtiger jagdpanzer 4 panzer 4H brummbar all of which can bounce SU-76 AT shells... even with both tanks on a stopgap AT role the StuG is clearly more valuable even with lesser penetration...

2. ive already called for vet nerfs... it isnt a good idea for the soviets to be a veteran heavy faction anyways..

The barrage busy needs to be a very ability. Do that and call it a day

35 muni hurts that ability hard...