New Commander concepts.

i have few suggestion to your idea which i really like btw.

"Großdeutschland" was opieOP division in entire Wermacht. They acually had a lot of heavy stuff and they were bloody elite. So:
1. becouse that division was very experience i would add upgrade for infantry (pio, grens, pgrens) called "extra training" - something like german infantry already has: extra unique abilities for each type of infantry
2. To make the concept more unique i would suggest Panzerfuzzilier rather than assualt grens.
3. 250 sdkfz is 4th MP call in unit so should be replace with ammo ability.



I would prefer that Tiger to be more diffrent that ostheer version. So expect panzer tactician i would add a smoke shot like cromwell has, expect mg a panzer commander, and ambush camo ability (but cannot move). Generally idea is great.

GD also had Tigers as well, only a regiment had the honorary title of Panzerfusiliers, the rest were basically Panzergrenadiers so you idea of infantry training does sound good. GD was also known for it's leadership so perhaps an Artillery Officer would also fit the theme.

Alternatively the Panzerfusiliers could also come mounted in a 250.

Because everyone has a kind of "doctrinal wishlist" i want to post my "wishlist" too:

RED ARMY

Air assault tactics
(Modelled around the historical soviet airborne forces)

Recon Overflight
Available aircraft will fly a high speed loiter over the target area.

Soviet Paratroopers
Airdropped elite infantry.
5 men squad armed with Mosin-Nagant rifles.
Abilities:
Can throw hand grenades and smoke grenades.
Upgrade:
SVT-40 upgrade for long range rapide fire.

Soviet glider landing
(Reskinned british Waco glider HQ)
Callin a soviet air glider. When landed you can recruit units here.
Following units can be recruited:
- 82mm soviet mortar team
- DshK MG team
- 45mm M1942 at gun (ingame 45mm at gun model with adjusted stats)

Hold the Line!
All soviet units will gain large offensive and defensive boosts, but be unable to move.

IL-2 Precision Bombing Strike
The IL-2 will make a high-speed bombing run, clustering four FAB-50 50kg bombs into the target area.


Guards Mechanized Tactics
(Modelled around the historical soviet 5th guards tank army during operation citadel)

Off Map Smoke Barrage
Soviet artillery will fire smoke shells to disrupt sight lines.

Soviet mechanized Infantry
A Bren Carrier with a soviet guards infantry squad can be deployed to the battlefield.
The Bren Carrier can be upgraded with a PTRD anti tank rifle.

Armored Vehicle Detection
Conscripts and elite infantry are able to detect enemy vehicles due to their particular noise signatures.

Tactical IL-2 Sturmovik Attack
Il-2 Sturmovik will strafe the target location with its powerful 23mm cannons.

Red Churchill
A Churchill heavy tank can be deployed to the battlefield.

WESTHEER:

Kampfgruppen Doctrine
(Modelled around the historical adhoc Kampfgruppen tactics around Arnhem)

(PASSIVE) Radio Intercept
Intercepts enemy radio transmissions providing valuable intel on enemy actions.

(PASSIVE) Model 24 Stun Grenades
Sturmpioneers and Volksgrenadiers can throw Model 24 stick grenades which will stun enemy infantry.

Tank hunters
A 7,5cm Pak 40 can be deployed to the battlefield.

Light Artillery Barrage
A light artillery barrage from nearby 7.5 cm le.IG 18 infantry support guns can scatter enemy forces.

Assault forces
A Sturmpanzer IV Brummbär (with side skirts) can be deployed to the battlefield.
Abilities:
Igr 39 HI/A - The heavy hollow charge grenade can stun vehicle crews and deal medium amount of damage against vehicles.


Heavy Armored Doctrine
(Modelled around the historical PzDiv 'Großdeutschland' division)

Panzerpioneers combat group
Deploy Panzerpioneers in a SdKft 251 halftrack equipped with flamethrowers and satchel charges, ideal for clearing buildings.
4 men squad armed with 3x MP40 smg and a single flamethrower.
Abilities:
Use satchel charges and sprint.

Propaganda Artillery
Airburst propaganda leaflets make targeted soldiers question the morality of their actions.

(PASSIVE) Vehicle Crew Repair Training
Vehicle crews gain an ability to repair battlefield damage on their vehicles once they leave combat.

Mark Vehicle
Targeted vehicle is subject to an increase in focused fire from nearby friendly forces.

Tiger PzKpfw VI Heavy Tank
Allows the requisition of the versatile and well armored Tiger Heavy Tank to the battlefield.





Volksgrenadier (or Sturmgeschütz) Doctrine
(Modelled around the Volksgrenadier-Divisionen of the Westheer.)

(PASSIVE) Radio Intercept
Intercepts enemy radio transmissions providing valuable intel on enemy actions.

Supporting combat infantry
A SdKfz. 251 haltrack with a squad Volksgrenadiere (already armed with a single Panzerschreck) can be deployed to the battlefield.

Combined Arms
Infantry and vehicles in proximity coordinate to improve the effectiveness of one another.

StuG assault gun
A StuG III Ausf. G assault gun can be deployed to the battlefield.
Upgrades:
Side skirts, scope
Abilities:
PzGr. 40 grenades - as long as ability is active the StuG will fire PzGr. 40 APCR rounds for better armor penetration and damage.

Heavy artillery bombardment
Volkswerferkorps artillery support will start a heavy bombardment of the marked position.

COMMONWEALTH

Royal Scottish Rifles Doctrine
(PASSIVE) Tommy Flares
Allow Tommy squads to fire flares to reveal the target area.

Scots Guards
British ranger (elite) infantry.
5 men squad armed with LeeEnfield rifles.
Abilities:
Grenade shower and white Phosphorus grenade (works like Obersoldaten smoke vet grenade [BK-2H Blendkörper]).
Upgrades:
Heavy combat package (4 M1 Thompson smgs + 1 Boys anti tank rifle)

3inch Self Propelled Gun M10
An M10 Tank Destroyer can be deployed to the battlefield. The Wolverine's 3 inch main gun is effective against all but the heaviest enemy armored vehicles.

Artillery Barrage
An medium artillery barrage from nearby 25pounder guns can scatter enemy forces.

The Crocodile
A Churchill Crocodile flamethrower tank can be deployed to the battlefield.

US FORCES

Combined Arms Company

(PASSIVE) Radio Intercept
Intercepts enemy radio transmissions providing valuable intel on enemy actions.

US Sniper
An US Sniper can be deployed to the battlefield.

Hold The Line!
Infantry units in friendly territories gain increased defense.

M4A3E8 Sherman 'Easy Eight'
A M4A3E8 Sherman 'Easy Eight' can be deployed to the battlefield. The 'Easy Eight' is the pinnacle of the Sherman design. Effective against all targets.

P-47 bombing run
P-47 Thunderbolt will drop incendiary high explosive bombs on the target location.

For the Ostheer i dont have any ideas at the moment because they had already a lot of weapons.
To be honest i was thinking about creating a soviet "urban defense like" doctrine with a reskinned soviet 45mm at gun (German 3,7cm Pak 36) and a reskinned soviet 120mm mortar (german 12cm Granatwerfer 42).
But i haven no idea about the other abilities :-(

Because everyone has a kind of "doctrinal wishlist" i want to post my "wishlist" too:

RED ARMY

https://www.coh2.org/topic/12492/the-doctrine-of-the-red-army-paratroops

https://www.coh2.org/topic/81213/big-annoucement-from-relic/post/688485

I suggested paratroopers back in 2013 and suggested a revised commander quite recently. Damn to offer something for Reliс does not make sense.

i have few suggestion to your idea which i really like btw.

"Großdeutschland" was opieOP division in entire Wermacht. They acually had a lot of heavy stuff and they were bloody elite. So:
1. becouse that division was very experience i would add upgrade for infantry (pio, grens, pgrens) called "extra training" - something like german infantry already has: extra unique abilities for each type of infantry
2. To make the concept more unique i would suggest Panzerfuzzilier rather than assualt grens.
3. 250 sdkfz is 4th MP call in unit so should be replace with ammo ability.

Thx for your feedback!
You are obviously right, the current version needs an ammo based ability and your idea of "extra training" can solve this issue. Maybe we could call this ability "Germany's finest" because on paper there was only volunteers in the division.
I would suggest that this ability only becomes available for Pzgrenadiers / Grenadiers because they were the backbone of this division. They should not get the 5th unit upgrade but some other buff. Let us collect ideas.
I also like the idea of adding a Knight's cross holder (to strengthen the "elite" concept) instead of Assgrens but Panzerfüssiliers would work well too.


Edited version of "Großdeutschland doctrine":
1. Extra training / Germany's finest (inf buff for Grens/ Pzgrens)
2. Counter attack tactics
3. Panzerfüssiliers (reworked - will help other commanders too) OR Knight's cross holder call-in(5men Pzgren unit, 1 Sturmofficer model / 4 Pzgrens, Smoke grenade AND Bundle nade, shared cool down)
4. Stuka zu Fuß call-in (8 CP)
5. P4 H-Version: Elite version of the P4 (passiv), can be build at the Support Armor Corps. (So it would come a little bit later than the T-34/85)

Thx for your feedback!
You are obviously right, the current version needs an ammo based ability and your idea of "extra training" can solve this issue. I would suggest that this training only becomes available for Pzgrenadiers / Grenadiers because they were the backbone of this division. They should not get the 5th unit upgrade but some other buff. Let us collect ideas here.

Edited version of "Großdeutschland doctrine":
1. Etra training (inf buff for Grens/ Pzgrens)
2. Counter attack tactics
3. Panzerfüssiliers (reworked - will help other commanders too)
4. Stuka zu Fuß call-in (8 CP)
• P4 H-Version call-in : Elite version of the P4 (Cp 8)

Here's the topic I recently read on GD: http://www.grossdeutschland2kpreenactors.yolasite.com/gro%C3%9Fdeutschland-history.php

The Panzerfusiliers, Halftracks and Tigers as well as the leadership of the Division are all mentioned here.

And here's where I read about Leibstandarte, also known as the LSSAH, I won't mention the full name because of the present political climate: http://www.panzerace.net/the-waffen-ss/the-leibstandarte.html

And here's where I read about Leibstandarte, also known as the LSSAH, I won't mention the full name because of the present political climate: http://www.panzerace.net/the-waffen-ss/the-leibstandarte.html

"Present"

Wtf ? Lol

"Present"

Wtf ? Lol

Just google Political Correctness, that should explain everything.

Just google Political Correctness, that should explain everything.

LMAO if even a fan site ban this crap i hope aliens come and destroy every fucking thing on earth

SS-LSSAH

okw Operation Greif Doctrine okw

0CP - Tank Camouflage
Puma, Panzer IV and Panther able to use Cautious Movement ability

2CP - Demolition Training
Sturmpioneers and Obersoldaten able to use Satchel charge

2CP - M3 Half-track

3CP - Infiltration Fallschirmjäger
Usual stats. Fallschirmjäger model replaced with US Riflemen, FG42 model replaced with BAR.
Panzerfaust replaced with toggleable camo ability (vCoH style)
Blendkorper Grenade replaced with Confused Orders ability. Short range aura ability with effect similar to soviet propaganda

8CP - Panzer Commander
The Panzer IV, Panther & King Tiger can be upgraded with a Panzer Commander that can survey the battlefield and call in coordinated artillery strikes

Guys, i have the order of battle of the "Großdeutschland"-Division and would like to show it.
How can i post the picture here? I had to scan the page from a Phd-study and can't copy it in this post.

The order of battle shows some interesting stuff: The division had an Sturmpionier-Bataillon, so we could in theory also include the option that Sturms would be available in this doctrine.

Guys, i have the order of battle of the "Großdeutschland"-Division and would like to show it.
How can i post the picture here? I had to scan the page from a Phd-study and can't copy it in this post.

The order of battle shows some interesting stuff: The division had an Sturmpionier-Bataillon, so we could in theory also include the option that Sturms would be available in this doctrine.

You can upload it to a site like imgur and then link it here using the picture icons on the top left of the comment screen.

You can upload it to a site like imgur and then link it here using the picture icons on the top left of the comment screen.

Thx, i will try this later!
Btw, after analysing the order of battle (Summer 1943) its pretty clear that a doctrine centered around the "Großdeutschland" theme should not include a Tiger. The divison had only medium tanks at this time.

Also interesting is the fact that "GD" not only had a full scale tank regiment like a tank division but also a full Sturmgeschützabteilung (3 companies of Sturmgeschütze.) That brings me to the idea of giving this doctrine not only elite PZIV but also elite Surmgeschütze.

Doctrine would look like this:

• Etra training / Germany's finest (inf buff for Grens/ Pzgrens)
  2. Counter attack tactics
  3. Panzerfüssiliers (reworked - will help other commanders too)
  4. Stug III G: Elite version, costs 110 fuel, comes with skirts, slightly better range, can be build in the Support Armor Corps
  5. P4 j-Version: OKW version of the P4, can be build in the Support Armor Corps
  
  This doctrine would not only mirrow the "Order of battle" but would also make it a lot more attractive to go with Support Armor Corps (which is a little bit underwhelming imo)
  

Thx, i will try this later!
Btw, after analysing the order of battle (Summer 1943) its pretty clear that a doctrine centered around the "Großdeutschland" theme should not include a Tiger. The divison had only medium tanks at this time.
[...]

Sorry. Thats not correct.
PzGrenDiv GD received 14 Tiger tanks. All Tigers were ready for combat at the start of Operation Zitadelle (Kursk offensive). Furthermore the Division had already received the new Panther tanks.
All in all it is the Elite Division of the german army so they army high command was interested in supplying as much weapons as possible to the division (The Heer had no other "Elite division").
But i wont use the name ingame. We had similar discussions inside the Eastern Front Mod Team because we had made a doctrine around GD too.
CoH is a game so i dont have any problems with a doctrine/commander with a historical background but i think the game shouldnt use any specific unit/division names to prevent any political debate (e.g. someone here remembering the old discussions with Obersoldaten and their old name ).

Sorry. Thats not correct.
PzGrenDiv GD received 14 Tiger tanks. All Tigers were ready for combat at the start of Operation Zitadelle (Kursk offensive). Furthermore the Division had already received the new Panther tanks.
All in all it is the Elite Division of the german army so they army high command was interested in supplying as much weapons as possible to the division (The Heer had no other "Elite division").
But i wont use the name ingame. We had similar discussions inside the Eastern Front Mod Team because we had made a doctrine around GD too.
CoH is a game so i dont have any problems with a doctrine/commander with a historical background but i think the game shouldnt use any specific unit/division names to prevent any political debate (e.g. someone here remembering the old discussions with Obersoldaten and their old name ).

Thx for correcting me, the order of battle i analyzed was from April 1943 and Operation Zitadelle began in July; the division got the heavy tanks just before the start of the offensive.
IN terms of the name of the doctrine, well, i thought about it too. We could also name the doctrine "Germany's finest"/ Pride of the Wehrmacht(or something like that) mirroring the elite concept and the fact that the division consisted (at least on paper) only of volunteers.

Btw: I really like your Soviet Air Assault commander.

Because everyone has a kind of "doctrinal wishlist" i want to post my "wishlist" too:
RED ARMY

Conducting a lot of research about the Soviet paratroopers, I came to this commander:
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- Paratroopers: 6 men, armed with SVT-40 (SVT-40 was supposed to be the main weapon for paratroopers, the entire parachute system was designed so that the paratroopers could jump with SVT),
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can be armed with PPS-43. After the appearance of PPS-43, they immediately became popular with paratroopers, because they are smaller than the PPSh-41 and have a lower rate of fire, and remained on arms airborne troops up to the 1950s.
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or two DP-27
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Abilities: F1 grenade, explosive. Can be parachuted into the fog of war. 1st veteran ability: 5 shots from a 37mm spade mortar.
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Icon based on the chest icon
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- Parachute anti-tank group: M-42 with crew.
M-42 abilities: camouflage, armour-piercing discarding sabot
crew: conscripts but in paratrooper skin, ability: merging. PTRS improvement - 2 PTRS, AT grenade, AT mines, camouflage.
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- T-38 with a 20-mm cannon, can be delivered to any place on the map (only an explored place). Ability: capture points, intelligence.
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- IL-2 support. two IL-2s patrol an area and shoots from 23 mm cannon and rockets / drop PTAB bombs.

- infantry moves faster and capture the point..

@Crecer: I think the main problem with your airborne commander is the T-38.
Relic wont add new models. I would welcome any new weapon for the game
but cant see Relic spending money and time into new weapons and animations.
So any new commander had to be done with ingame weapons and content.
So that is the reason why i tried to look into the models and think about new combinations.
For the soviet airborne commander it should be easy to implement the 45mm at gun with adjusted stats (to be honest i think the ingame model is the M-42 version) or other heavy weapons like soviet MGs, Mortar ect ect.
To be honest there is no soviet glider at all so at the end would need reskinned british gliders.
I'm still hoping for the soviet airborne forces because out of my view it is one of those red army units everyone has forgotten.

@Crecer: I think the main problem with your airborne commander is the T-38.
Relic wont add new models. I would welcome any new weapon for the game
but cant see Relic spending money and time into new weapons and animations.
So any new commander had to be done with ingame weapons and content.
So that is the reason why i tried to look into the models and think about new combinations.
For the soviet airborne commander it should be easy to implement the 45mm at gun with adjusted stats (to be honest i think the ingame model is the M-42 version) or other heavy weapons like soviet MGs, Mortar ect ect.
To be honest there is no soviet glider at all so at the end would need reskinned british gliders.
I'm still hoping for the soviet airborne forces because out of my view it is one of those red army units everyone has forgotten.

I absolutely agree, the Soviet parachutists are undeservedly forgotten. During the war years, about thirty tactical parachute operations were carried out, and more than twenty during the Soviet-Japanese war.

There is another alternative. Universal Carrier with a group of scouts. Samples of light armored vehicles suitable for landing by airplanes TB-3-4AM-34FRN, IL-4, Li-2: light tanks T-37A / T-38 / T-41, Universal Carrier, BA-64, cars GAZ-AA, GAZ-67, "Willis". Also the bike can be parachuted.

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@Crecer: I think the main problem with your airborne commander is the T-38.
Relic wont add new models. I would welcome any new weapon for the game
but cant see Relic spending money and time into new weapons and animations.

I also see a problem here: if Relic gave advanced tools for CoH2 as for CoH1, then the fans probably created a bunch of material in five years of life of the game that could be used in the patch. I think the fans would not refuse Relic to use their material in a patch.