Try playing Ostheer for once? Problem solved.
Never play Soviets. Late game is awful, always same thing. consisting of 2 letters and 2 numbers.
Siezing an enemy weapon as Axis is too hard
15 Sep 2013, 08:04 AM
#21
4 
Posts: 505
Never play Soviets. Late game is awful, always same thing. consisting of 2 letters and 2 numbers.
16 Sep 2013, 04:59 AM
#22
Posts: 85
I have to slightly agree with the OP. Whenever i'm playing Axis and I see a Maxim for instance, i want to pick it up but I have 3 panzergrens!
Though it does kinda make up for the German's extremely versatile tiers.
Though it does kinda make up for the German's extremely versatile tiers.
17 Sep 2013, 00:55 AM
#23
Posts: 409
I have to slightly agree with the OP. Whenever i'm playing Axis and I see a Maxim for instance, i want to pick it up but I have 3 panzergrens!
Though it does kinda make up for the German's extremely versatile tiers.
Never grab weapons with Panzergrenadiers, the reinforcement cost is way too expensive.
17 Sep 2013, 02:31 AM
#24
Posts: 3293
the way i see it is there is 2 ways to fix the problme one is rebalance the gren squads to hold 5 man. (not making them volks) this allows grens to be useful later game and actually viable.
and/or change the squad reinforcement to 2.
in another thread i wrote out somthing like this in more detail. but i never posted it.
and/or change the squad reinforcement to 2.
in another thread i wrote out somthing like this in more detail. but i never posted it.
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17 Sep 2013, 12:37 PM
#25
Posts: 89
the way i see it is there is 2 ways to fix the problme one is rebalance the gren squads to hold 5 man. (not making them volks) this allows grens to be useful later game and actually viable.
and/or change the squad reinforcement to 2.
in another thread i wrote out somthing like this in more detail. but i never posted it.
This is actually a good idea. Putting one more man in the grenadiersquad and adjusting the damage output would pretty much fix this problem in the early game at least.
Lategame problem would pretty much remain bad because there's no reason to produce grenadiers when mp is in short supply and you need other units.
17 Sep 2013, 12:56 PM
#26
Posts: 688
This is kind of crazy. You HAVE pios allready.
And btw. the SU player needs to be just as carefull because his 6 man squad can dwindle in battle to 3 as fast as a 4 man grenadier can.
I do understand where the OPs question is coming from though. I have read a lot in this forum about some players still thinking the german faction is at a disadvantage because grenadiers only have 4 men - as opposed to the 6 men of the conscripts.
It's a basic misunderstading of the balance between grenadiers and conscripts IMO. And that misunderstanding is now just repeated in a new context.
And btw. the SU player needs to be just as carefull because his 6 man squad can dwindle in battle to 3 as fast as a 4 man grenadier can.
I do understand where the OPs question is coming from though. I have read a lot in this forum about some players still thinking the german faction is at a disadvantage because grenadiers only have 4 men - as opposed to the 6 men of the conscripts.
It's a basic misunderstading of the balance between grenadiers and conscripts IMO. And that misunderstanding is now just repeated in a new context.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
17 Sep 2013, 13:11 PM
#27
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedThe capture requirement could be reduced to 2 men for Ost without any adverse effects imo.
Notably, those models still retain 1.5 armor, if taken by Grens/Pgrens though.
Notably, those models still retain 1.5 armor, if taken by Grens/Pgrens though.
17 Sep 2013, 13:35 PM
#28
Posts: 172
This is, in my opinion, one of those 'don't fix what isn't broken' moments.
17 Sep 2013, 14:13 PM
#29
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedThis is, in my opinion, one of those 'don't fix what isn't broken' moments.
Thats a matter of opinion, and it depends, and you shouldnt be comparing units in a vacuum.
Requiring a 100% unit to be able to capture a weapon as Ost is quite a difference from requiring only 75% unit as Sov. This is a significant difference and something that needs to be carried in mind, since everything depends, affects the meta, and we don't want to compare units in a vacuum, do we.
17 Sep 2013, 14:19 PM
#30
Posts: 525
Never play Soviets. Late game is awful, always same thing. consisting of 2 letters and 2 numbers.
t34/76?
1 letter 4 numbers... damit!
IS-2 2 letters 1 number... damit!
ISU 3 letter damit!
Disclaimer: any post made by this user should not be taken seriously, reader discretion is advised.
17 Sep 2013, 14:26 PM
#31
2 
Posts: 2181
t34/76?
1 letter 4 numbers... damit!
IS-2 2 letters 1 number... damit!
ISU 3 letter damit!
M3A1
17 Sep 2013, 14:26 PM
#32
Posts: 172
Thats a matter of opinion, and it depends, and you shouldnt be comparing units in a vacuum.
Requiring a 100% unit to be able to capture a weapon as Ost is quite a difference from requiring only 75% unit as Sov. This is a significant difference and something that needs to be carried in mind, since everything depends, affects the meta, and we don't want to compare units in a vacuum, do we.
What unit is 100% used up when recrewing?
17 Sep 2013, 14:27 PM
#33
Posts: 2425
Permanently Banned
What unit is 100% used up when recrewing?
If you dont have a 100% Ost unit, you will lose it in the capture.
It requires therefore a 100% Ost unit to capture a weapon, without losing the original unit.
Sorry if I was unclear.
17 Sep 2013, 14:29 PM
#34
Posts: 89
This is, in my opinion, one of those 'don't fix what isn't broken' moments.
But it is broken. It's enough to get slightly hit by a mortar and you're down to 3 men and unable to capture a weapon.
A Soviet could lose two men and still be able to capture and not lose anything.
It's broken, just realize that.
This was never broken in vCOH because of the 5 man volksgrenadiers, early game was fine which is the critical point where lots of mg42's and mortars could possibly switch hands.
Quite simply it allows the Soviet player to make more mistakes in the early game because even if he loses his stuff he can just run back and re-crew them because no German player had enough men available in his squads to actually steal anything simply because stealing it would mean losing his original squad.
17 Sep 2013, 17:55 PM
#35
Posts: 351
I think the best solution is to just add Ostruppen to T1.
17 Sep 2013, 18:03 PM
#36
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
So to capture an enemy weapon an Axis player needs to get tier 2, build a certain building and then build a certain vehicle in order to safely capture an enemy weapon when the enemy can build a 6 man squad from their main building and steal it right away?
Not to mention that it requires 80 fuel to do so.
I'm fine with the "3 men is converted" if you capture a weapon with the soviets but it should only be 2 with the Axis because of the smaller squads.
Soviet has to go underwhelming t3(although much better than before) for an unreliable counter to osteer's cheap strafing run, but you really want t4 to counter panzers.
there are advantages and disadvantages to both factions. considering all asymmetries, i think it is fair on a more grand scale of things.
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17 Sep 2013, 18:12 PM
#37
Posts: 2425
Permanently Bannedthere are advantages and disadvantages to both factions. considering all asymmetries, i think it is fair on a more grand scale of things.
Considering various vacuums, and how everything depends on something, and that every opinion is subjective, and that basically actually essentially, on the effects of the macros on the meta, as related to the micro, considering asymmetricity and the OPness vs the UPNess of some things, I think it could be adjusted a bit.
19 Sep 2013, 07:50 AM
#38
Posts: 747
I agree mostly with the op.
Most of the time the crew of the sov weapon team already kills one or even two models of the attacking german squad
Anyone of you ever been succesful in "stealing" a 120mm Mortar?
Most of the time the crew of the sov weapon team already kills one or even two models of the attacking german squad
Anyone of you ever been succesful in "stealing" a 120mm Mortar?
19 Sep 2013, 09:47 AM
#39
4 Posts: 550 | Subs: 1
Thats a matter of opinion, and it depends, and you shouldnt be comparing units in a vacuum.
Requiring a 100% unit to be able to capture a weapon as Ost is quite a difference from requiring only 75% unit as Sov. This is a significant difference and something that needs to be carried in mind, since everything depends, affects the meta, and we don't want to compare units in a vacuum, do we.
He voiced his personal opinion and did not make any comparison while you, in the second paragraph of your post, do just what you accuse him to do .Anyway, I do agree that capturing with just 2 entities of a squad would be a change one could look at in the beta patch branch and if no problems are encountered included into the game. However, the underlying concept of a higher risk for Axis to capture a crew weapon was around since CoH1 and could be intentional (for PE capturing a crew weapon isn't possible without loosing the squad before the global upgrade to increase the squad size to 4. This fact however is perfectly accounted for in the faction's design).
Help test the USF teching adjustment mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1553135357
19 Sep 2013, 16:40 PM
#40
Posts: 2425
Permanently Banned Makes no significant difference to risk.
The weapon would be manned by two 1.5 armor models and require reinforcement, per usual.
Its a practical and pragmatic problem, that can only cap with a 100% model unit.
2man capture on ost would be directly proportional to 3man cap by Sov.
Regardless, Ost can still only man it with max 4, vs Sovs 6
The weapon would be manned by two 1.5 armor models and require reinforcement, per usual.
Its a practical and pragmatic problem, that can only cap with a 100% model unit.
2man capture on ost would be directly proportional to 3man cap by Sov.
Regardless, Ost can still only man it with max 4, vs Sovs 6
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