I'm actually a Soviet player that also wants to see the Focused Sight go away from the SU-85 as well. However, I would like to see options for getting that sight using units and abilities. Then they could roll back some of the other SU-85 nerfs.
Snipers, for instance, start with the valuable flare ability. It's a huge area of extra line of sight, but it's balanced in that you can see the flare. Snipers have their own issues though.
Soviets will also be getting more useful Commanders with recon flights.
Overall, I dislike when there's too much line of sight that's easily obtained, especially when other units can make use of that extreme LoS.
Spotting Scope on Elephants
21 Sep 2013, 13:32 PM
#41
Posts: 401
21 Sep 2013, 17:57 PM
#42
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
Stop being ignorant Woof. Flanking with a tank is a bit differnt than flanking with a tank destroyer.
I wonder how many Elephants you've killed using your theories. Can you provide competetive replay to show it?
I do know how to deal with Elephant theoreticly but theory and reality are different in this case. I've met Elephants in circa 20 games so far and I've managed to destroy whole 3-5 of them, not sure about the number, mostly due to opponent over extending itself.
On some maps you can ignore it and move to the next point but there are some on which Elephant is a king of the hill.
The unit itself is not that bad. It's the scope upgrade that needs to be look at.
are you sure youre talking about flanking and not circle strafing? i admit you cant circle strafe in an su85, but you can definitely flank. flanking does not require a turret.
im not sure whats "ignorant" about not attacking the elefant head on, where its the strongest. i also wouldnt charge schrecks at an isu152 head on excepting them to win, but maybe thats just me. if my suggestions are so ignorant, im curious to hear what your strategy against elefants is. avoiding the elefant works on most maps (pripyat winter is the only one i can think of where it doesnt) but most people dont like that answer.
21 Sep 2013, 18:39 PM
#43
Posts: 401
Keep in mind, Head On for an Elephant often means you're still half-way across the map while it's still firing at you. And in team games, there could be multiple Elephants, as well as other tanks.
For as much as some Germans hated immediately losing their tanks to SU-85s, which doesn't happen that much lately, imagine losing it to things half-way across the map.
Then again, they're finding their hatred for the ISU-152 and IS-2 since they were buffed to be useful in the very late game.
For as much as some Germans hated immediately losing their tanks to SU-85s, which doesn't happen that much lately, imagine losing it to things half-way across the map.
Then again, they're finding their hatred for the ISU-152 and IS-2 since they were buffed to be useful in the very late game.
22 Sep 2013, 00:33 AM
#44
Posts: 1439
are you sure youre talking about flanking and not circle strafing? i admit you cant circle strafe in an su85, but you can definitely flank. flanking does not require a turret.
im not sure whats "ignorant" about not attacking the elefant head on, where its the strongest. i also wouldnt charge schrecks at an isu152 head on excepting them to win, but maybe thats just me. if my suggestions are so ignorant, im curious to hear what your strategy against elefants is. avoiding the elefant works on most maps (pripyat winter is the only one i can think of where it doesnt) but most people dont like that answer.
I'm sure I am talking about flanking. Still waiting for replay from you to see how it's done. Should be easier now with recent IS-2 buff. Ohh, and Pripyat, Minsk pocket or Rzhev map would be preferable.
22 Sep 2013, 00:56 AM
#45
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
I'm sure I am talking about flanking. Still waiting for replay from you to see how it's done. Should be easier now with recent IS-2 buff. Ohh, and Pripyat, Minsk pocket or Rzhev map would be preferable.
you said it yourself, im ignorant. thats why im eagerly waiting for your pro tips. apparently flanking elefants is the wrong way to do it. indirect fire (which even relic suggests) is the wrong way to do it. exploiting its horrible targeting priorities and rotation speed is also wrong. lets hear your suggestions.
22 Sep 2013, 01:26 AM
#46
Posts: 101
This forum has gone way downhill since launch. The number of personal attacks is retarded, and it's all generated from a few... vocal... individuals. And for the record, I've never posted anything that said "just flank it" in regards to an SU-85. Then again, I've also posted that I'd like to see the sight ability on the SU-85 removed as well, because it's cheap. But those are all just my opinions.
22 Sep 2013, 01:55 AM
#47
Posts: 1439
you said it yourself, im ignorant. thats why im eagerly waiting for your pro tips. apparently flanking elefants is the wrong way to do it. indirect fire (which even relic suggests) is the wrong way to do it. exploiting its horrible targeting priorities and rotation speed is also wrong. lets hear your suggestions.
You're the one telling everyone how it should be done. I would like to see it.
22 Sep 2013, 03:25 AM
#48
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
You're the one telling everyone how it should be done. I would like to see it.
hahah whats your problem? i merely made a few suggestions to someone who was having trouble with elefants. i never claimed that i play soviets a lot and kill elefants all the time. i play mostly german and use the elefant doctrine almost exclusively. youve only fought the elefant 20 times and killed it 3-5 times. i have more experience with the unit than you. maybe not fighting against it, but i can still tell you what works and what doesnt from the german perspective.
turtle wasnt offended by my response to him. im not sure why youre going after me so hard.
22 Sep 2013, 10:57 AM
#49
Posts: 1582 | Subs: 4
you said it yourself, im ignorant. thats why im eagerly waiting for your pro tips. apparently flanking elefants is the wrong way to do it. indirect fire (which even relic suggests) is the wrong way to do it. exploiting its horrible targeting priorities and rotation speed is also wrong. lets hear your suggestions.
Yes, Relic suggested it in one of their streams, but how do you use indirect fire by howitzers, if in the same doctrine that has an elephant, you also have recon and bombing strike? Thats like 240 munitions to 100% kill 600MP and avoid it doing damage to you, easy choice. Or even only 160 munitions, if you get vision in a different way.
Whatever, i dont have issues with the elephant itself, just the scope on it. Especially in teamgames, where your mate can exploit the extra sight for his incendary strikes with mortar half tracks, for example.
22 Sep 2013, 11:19 AM
#50
Posts: 1439
hahah whats your problem? i merely made a few suggestions to someone who was having trouble with elefants. i never claimed that i play soviets a lot and kill elefants all the time. i play mostly german and use the elefant doctrine almost exclusively. youve only fought the elefant 20 times and killed it 3-5 times. i have more experience with the unit than you. maybe not fighting against it, but i can still tell you what works and what doesnt from the german perspective.
turtle wasnt offended by my response to him. im not sure why youre going after me so hard.
Sorry Woof but it doesn't work that way. Using the unit is not the same as playing against.
22 Sep 2013, 11:38 AM
#51
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedOZtheWiZARD: Wheren't you one of the people saying SU85 was "simply easy to flank" pre-deserved nerfs?
22 Sep 2013, 11:47 AM
#52
Posts: 1439
OZtheWiZARD: Wheren't you one of the people saying SU85 was "simply easy to flank" pre-deserved nerfs?
Nullist: Aren't you the guy who only plays German and have no idea how the other faction even looks like?
22 Sep 2013, 11:51 AM
#53
Posts: 1582 | Subs: 4
i asked it in the beginning of the thread, i'll do it again. Stop these personal debates, get back to facts. All of you.
Do you have something to add to the discussion? Cool let us hear about it. You don't? Alright, then keep your mouth shut!
Do you have something to add to the discussion? Cool let us hear about it. You don't? Alright, then keep your mouth shut!
22 Sep 2013, 11:56 AM
#54
Posts: 978
Any nerf to the Elefant will render it useless. I hardly use it as I almost never use it cost effectively. It´s supposed to be a sniping bunker. But even two T-34s can counter it if lucky. One anti tank grenade can make it effectively immobile (if lucky). let´s face it: The Elefant is so slow that even a small engine damage let´s it crawl at the speed of a grandma in a wheelchair. That´s a huge gamble and to risky for 260 fuel. What remains is it´s spotting range, to effectively counter tanks in it´s line of sight. However with the horrible accuracy it has on long range even that´s doubtful.
If sight ragne was to be nerfed a slight mobility increase is needed or a buff to it´s accuracy on long range to encourage spotting.
If sight ragne was to be nerfed a slight mobility increase is needed or a buff to it´s accuracy on long range to encourage spotting.
22 Sep 2013, 13:06 PM
#55
15 
Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
I agree that the spotting scope adds too much sight, combined with the recon run that the commander also offers and the cheap off-map arty I think that the commander may need some re-working.
22 Sep 2013, 16:58 PM
#56
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
Yes, Relic suggested it in one of their streams, but how do you use indirect fire by howitzers, if in the same doctrine that has an elephant, you also have recon and bombing strike? Thats like 240 munitions to 100% kill 600MP and avoid it doing damage to you, easy choice. Or even only 160 munitions, if you get vision in a different way.
youre right, howitzers are not entirely reliable. ive had plenty of games where the soviets build howitzers faster than i can bomb them though. i find 600 mp easier to get than 240 munitions, but i guess that all depends on caches and how infantry heavy your army is, since reinforcing will slow you down considerably. an m5 with the quad .50 cals can also shoot down scout planes in the first pass, so that can buy your howitzer more time as well.
i wasnt necessarily referring to howitzers though. katyushas wont kill the elefant but they will soften up the support. killing inf and hts makes the german position much more vulnerable. having to run back to the base to reinforce makes a huge difference.
22 Sep 2013, 18:19 PM
#57
Posts: 1582 | Subs: 4
youre right, howitzers are not entirely reliable. ive had plenty of games where the soviets build howitzers faster than i can bomb them though. i find 600 mp easier to get than 240 munitions, but i guess that all depends on caches and how infantry heavy your army is, since reinforcing will slow you down considerably. an m5 with the quad .50 cals can also shoot down scout planes in the first pass, so that can buy your howitzer more time as well.
The m5 with quad .50 cals is certainly a good counter to strafes. But it will almost always need you more than one barrage to shoot down the plane. In 95% of the cases you won't be able to deny it to get line of sight on the howitzer.
But this is about the scope on elephants, providing them massive line of sight. Its less about the elephant itself and even less about the howitzer.
24 Sep 2013, 19:54 PM
#58
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
what about making the scope only spot vehicles
 | Playercard of Bo-Bobby Lion | |||||||||||||||
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24 Sep 2013, 21:07 PM
#59
Posts: 93
what about making the scope only spot vehicles
Oooo I like that idea Pig
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