The Shock Trooper ninja nerf really made Shocks less useful and less used, sure, they dominate any other infantry on the field, but their price/upkeep/reinforcement price really discourages use of them. IMO, they are fine as they are now but should have a notable reinforcement price decrease. Sure, their armor makes them die less, but that doesn't count against grenades and tanks(which the game has too much use of).
Anyone agree?
Reinforcement price of Shocks is too damn high
6 Sep 2013, 00:35 AM
#1
Posts: 85
6 Sep 2013, 00:45 AM
#2
Posts: 317
Yes Fully
6 Sep 2013, 00:49 AM
#3
Posts: 954
not only reinforcement, but the 480MP drain is damn high too, and most importantly, Guards are crucial especially after the AT nade nerf
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
6 Sep 2013, 00:50 AM
#4
Posts: 627
No, Conscript Merge.
6 Sep 2013, 01:00 AM
#5
Posts: 170
No, Conscript Merge.
Conscript merge doesn't give them shock troop armor; you are better off reinforcing shocks when possible to get that armor back.
6 Sep 2013, 01:46 AM
#6
Posts: 317
Conscript merge doesn't give them shock troop armor; you are better off reinforcing shocks when possible to get that armor back.
They still get the weapons and damage though so actually its more worth it to reinforce with conscripts because also you will get vet faster ...
wink once you get them to vet three they damn near invincible and then they are worth their cost and then you reinforce at hq.
6 Sep 2013, 01:49 AM
#7
Posts: 170
They still get the weapons and damage though so actually its more worth it to reinforce with conscripts because also you will get vet faster ...
Technically you also reduce their overall hp and increase their chances of getting a squad wipe, and seriously affect their ability to run up and assault other troops with 1 armor. But if you want to pay 480 + merge costs for 1 armor units, go ahead.
6 Sep 2013, 01:54 AM
#8
Posts: 525
Conscript merge doesn't give them shock troop armor; you are better off reinforcing shocks when possible to get that armor back.
not really. it saves a lot of manpower while keeping the damage output of the shock troops high. ok they become more fragile. but when the whole squad is made of conscripts even the enemy gets a bit of a surprise when they find out they are shocks. and the saving of manpower allows you to keep them in the fight while they gain veterancy. you just need to be more mindful of their weakened state. and use them to root out emplacements supported by actual conscripts.
Disclaimer: any post made by this user should not be taken seriously, reader discretion is advised.
6 Sep 2013, 02:26 AM
#9
Posts: 954
Then why don't you get PPSH upgrade for cons instead?
What you pay 480MP for? Conscript squad with PPSH?
What you pay 480MP for? Conscript squad with PPSH?
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
6 Sep 2013, 02:44 AM
#10
Posts: 68
You aren't using them right. Stop charging blindly into danger. Rather, scout with a cheap unit first, identify easy kills, and swoop in like a hawk. Or else ambush. Wait behind a sight-blocker, and startle your enemy with a face full of assault rifle. Or else wait until the storm hits. But don't ever spearhead an assault with your most expensive/valuable unit. They suck royally at range. Who needs armour when you have a meatshield?
6 Sep 2013, 07:14 AM
#11
Posts: 409
Also, Shocks are very good at split-pushing in 1v1 because a fresh full-hp squad requires a flametrack or tank to take out without heavy casualties.
6 Sep 2013, 08:14 AM
#12
Posts: 934
You aren't using them right. Stop charging blindly into danger. Rather, scout with a cheap unit first, identify easy kills, and swoop in like a hawk. Or else ambush. Wait behind a sight-blocker, and startle your enemy with a face full of assault rifle. Or else wait until the storm hits. But don't ever spearhead an assault with your most expensive/valuable unit. They suck royally at range. Who needs armour when you have a meatshield?
This.
I use Shocks extensively, I think about 80% of my games I utilize Shock doctrines nowadays. The high reinforce cost is justified by the shear amount of damage they can do against all infantry/support weapons if they find the right spot to enter the engagement safetly and at close range. The reinforce cost is easy to avoid as you can utilize healing station. Don't play wildly with Shocks and keep them present on the field til they are down to 2-3 men, send them back to heal at every given opportunity when they are low health with 4-6 men.
Play smart and don't overextend them, because as you say the reinforce cost is to damn high. It is part of the reason why in 1v1 games I will only ever field 1 Shock squad and the rest of my infantry is Conscripts (3-4 squads).
The 480MP base cost. This I have an issue with as at it deters early game Shock play without severe risk. I often take this risk, however within good measure otherwise sometimes you must go Guards.
6 Sep 2013, 15:15 PM
#13
Posts: 627
Then why don't you get PPSH upgrade for cons instead?
What you pay 480MP for? Conscript squad with PPSH?
Because they're entirely different?
6 Sep 2013, 15:35 PM
#14
Posts: 954
Because they're entirely different?
because you payed double the price of a conscript for a conscript with PPSH?
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
6 Sep 2013, 16:49 PM
#15
Posts: 2425
Permanently Banned
because you payed double the price of a conscript for a conscript with PPSH?
This guy apparently doesnt know they have 2.25 armor, as well as the PPsHs..!
A 6man Shock squad has the equivalent survival of 7.5 PGrens.
Thats almost two PGren units worth of survival, in one unit.
6 Sep 2013, 16:53 PM
#16
Posts: 954
This guy apparently doesnt know they have 2.25 armor, as well as the PPsHs..!
They said use conscript to merge it , anyway cool story nullist, as always
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
6 Sep 2013, 17:26 PM
#17
Posts: 409
Yes, because it would be totally balanced to reinforce the best infantry squad in the game for only 20 manpower a soldier while retaining all of the benefits.
6 Sep 2013, 17:54 PM
#18
Posts: 337
This guy apparently doesnt know they have 2.25 armor, as well as the PPsHs..!
A 6man Shock squad has the equivalent survival of 7.5 PGrens.
Thats almost two PGren units worth of survival, in one unit.
Only against small arms though. Once vehicles hit the field, they become huge MP drains. I haven't seen any top players use them well in a long time. I've tried using them quite often, but found them to be lackluster, although not terrible.
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6 Sep 2013, 17:54 PM
#19
Posts: 525
They said use conscript to merge it , anyway cool story nullist, as always
i use it and it works for me. i merge them a lot. so much sometimes they are made entirely of conscripts and my manpower is saved as i need it to be saved.
Disclaimer: any post made by this user should not be taken seriously, reader discretion is advised.
8 Sep 2013, 01:15 AM
#20
Posts: 627
because you payed double the price of a conscript for a conscript with PPSH?
No, the weapons used are different and so are the damage output values. Conscripts with PPsH not only get just 2 PPsH(As opposed to Shocks getting 6), the PPsH with the Conscript upgrade is a different weapon model and puts out different damage values to the Shocktrooper PPsH.
Really, what do you want? You're paying 20 manpower to reinforce instead of 45. This is a trade off. If you have a problem with the reinforcement cost, then compromise. Otherwise, suck it up. Shocktrooper models are incredibly powerful. You pay the 480MP to get a high DPS squad on the field that has several grenade options and is initially extremely durable. You pay double the price for the impact of such a powerful unit, and then you maintain the DPS and special grenades by merging them with Conscripts. What is your problem?
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