Penal Batalions

Of course that is important. How can you say a strat is good if you tested it against an opponent that's worse than you?

I don't think he was worse than me actually...let's say the game ended when I de-crewed two of his MG's...I didn't say this strat is bulletproof but 2 out of 3 matches worked wonders,the match I lost I didn't even had MP to call in Penals because of Conscript losses
Off-Topic:this is a little test I did,I managed to catch a guy's MG 42 off-guard,don't think he was paying attention,but my Penals shot him(didn't use satchel to see flanking reward) for 25-35 seconds before killing all members

I don't think he was worse than me actually...let's say the game ended when I de-crewed two of his MG's...I didn't say this strat is bulletproof but 2 out of 3 matches worked wonders,the match I lost I didn't even had MP to call in Penals because of Conscript losses
Off-Topic:this is a little test I did,I managed to catch a guy's MG 42 off-guard,don't think he was paying attention,but my Penals shot him(didn't use satchel to see flanking reward) for 25-35 seconds before killing all members

Let's be serious. The real reason you won that match is because you got a mg42. I've won every match where i managed to steal an MG42.

A more direct logical conclusion is he won because he managed to kill two MGs.

Capturing them is secondary, and just icing on that cake.

Here is a video showing penals doing something very useful:



Its rare to find your self in this kind of situation but it sure is great when it happens!

While various things conspire to make penals unattractive, I actually think making them much cheaper is a pretty bad idea, and they scale really well with vet, and the flamers are a big addition to effectiveness against p-grens, and an early penal in M3 has the best chance of an MG steal of anything in the game. I've played a few games bigger than 1v1 recently, and they work OK as an opening in that (especially since Ostheer in >1v1 games are even more MG focussed).

Satchels are kind of high-risk but they are also both incredible and hilarious, so I'm alright with the cost on them. The MG-42 base-pin in Langres can often actually let you satchel it over the hedge effectively.

I'd like to see a small armour buff for them (say, to 1.2, so merge is still a good call but there's a slight bonus for reinforcing at greater cost as with guards, arguably a reduction in build time, but I think that's a universal system related to cost so may not be changeable within current paradigms) but I think they're fundamentally priced about right for the unit's capabilities. I'd like to keep the flamethrower upgrade as a possibility but wouldn't be averse to having a PTRS upgrade as an alternative.

I think this discussion suffers from a basic mistake that many balance-discussions do these days; they assume the fix should work with the LMG as it is now. The problem seems to be more with the LMG than all the Soviet infantry.

First Relic needs to look at German weaponteams and the LMG-upgrade, then we'll see where the (meta)game takes us.

The LMG upgrade is really off-the-hook. With it, gren squads become beastly anti-infantry, and can beat or trade favourably with supposed counters (penals, and even shocks), and of course they simply slaughter conscripts. It's strange that the basic german infantry has such a powerful upgrade, and really should be brought more in-line with the level of the LMG in vCOH.

The LMG upgrade is really off-the-hook. With it, gren squads become beastly anti-infantry, and can beat or trade favourably with supposed counters (penals, and even shocks), and of course they simply slaughter conscripts. It's strange that the basic german infantry has such a powerful upgrade, and really should be brought more in-line with the level of the LMG in vCOH.

I figure the internal setup time was supposed to be the counterweight, but massed LMG Grens rip through infantry, especially at Vet.

Perhaps a removal of the setup time and a drop in DPS to more closely relate to DTs is in order.

sure let me whip out my super man card and play him so he can deal with EVERYTHING

The LMG upgrade is really off-the-hook. With it, gren squads become beastly anti-infantry, and can beat or trade favourably with supposed counters (penals, and even shocks), and of course they simply slaughter conscripts. It's strange that the basic german infantry has such a powerful upgrade, and really should be brought more in-line with the level of the LMG in vCOH.

Yeah, I think that is increasingly obviously a problem in the balance.

I mean, I really like it as an interesting upgrade and a scaling thing but the sheer increase in DPS is pretty off the wall.

Yeah, I think that is increasingly obviously a problem in the balance.

I mean, I really like it as an interesting upgrade and a scaling thing but the sheer increase in DPS is pretty off the wall.

The weapon is pretty inconsistent as well. When it fires, it pretty much insta-kills any soldier model short of a Shock Troop, but half the time the guy with the LMG is jumping around like an idiot due to AI behavior and not shooting.

Lowering the DPS while improving the unit AI and/or set up time would be a welcome change.

Let's be serious. The real reason you won that match is because you got a mg42. I've won every match where i managed to steal an MG42.

Yep it was one of the reasons I've won...MG is powerful enough with four man crew,like I said took 25 seconds shooting and MG in the back before crew dying...now with six man, that is another story...
Anyways,Penals are good anti-infantry and if the opponent isn't looking,anti-tank(satchels FTW)

Here is a video showing penals doing something very useful:



Its rare to find your self in this kind of situation but it sure is great when it happens!

That's some hardcore stuff )...took out a Stug in a similar matter but never a f*****g Panther

Yep it was one of the reasons I've won...MG is powerful enough with four man crew,like I said took 25 seconds shooting and MG in the back before crew dying...now with six man, that is another story...
Anyways,Penals are good anti-infantry and if the opponent isn't looking,anti-tank(satchels FTW)

I find it funny that Soviets want to capture every dropped German weapon on the map whereas German players probably won't ever bother picking up the Maxim or 82mm mortar and would probably only pick up a ZiS.

They should probably focus on balancing the support weapons on both sides so they are all useful in some manner before doing any drastic changes to penal battalions and such infantry.

I actually like stealing Maxims, but would never tough the 82mm mortar. That mortar is about as useful as ostruppen.

I find it funny that Soviets want to capture every dropped German weapon on the map whereas German players probably won't ever bother picking up the Maxim or 82mm mortar and would probably only pick up a ZiS.

They should probably focus on balancing the support weapons on both sides so they are all useful in some manner before doing any drastic changes to penal battalions and such infantry.

Well yeah,MG 42 is gg mod ...
Oh and On-Topic Penals are great vs. any infantry,a PGren squad managed to flank but I had Penals in the area...Pgrens lost 2 men before getting in range,so they are good and didn't win onlt because of stolen MG....every unit played it's part
Off-Topic:It's really funny how Germans don't know what to do when you have MG )