Relic! Message from STAVKA!

Lamest thing ive ever read

why this crap thread isn't locked yet?

And why the hell all russians wants their army in game be overpowered as fuck. I have enough of playing WoT and War Thunder made by russians, their balance is more broken than we have right now in CoH2

you are being mad about conscripts 1 armor being inferior to the german 1.5 armor? have you forgotten that a conscript squad has more hp and more men than a grenadier squad. so, the grenadiers are more vulnerable than a conscript squad. i think this perfect since it's the same way between riflemen and grenadiers in vcoh AS IT SHOULD BE. usually the soviet casualties are like 1.5 higher than the germans, just like american casualties to the germans in vcoh, and in real life 1944. it's not a 4:1 ratio unless the soviet player made some serious mistakes.

the only real problem is, that grenadiers have an lmg that totally decimates conscript squads, while the conscripts does not have the same kind of upgrade. other than that, things are fine.

i think relic interpreted the red army perfectly when comparing it to the german army. soviet troops are generally weaker but they have a large arsenal of anti infantry weapons. soviets should NOT have an armor upgrade.

No one appreciates my creativity, and for the 2nd time I am not Russian. Conscripts have the same health as grenadier and they only have 2 extra models which are very easy to kill. German infantry are only vulnerable when there is a sniper on the field, if anything one can argue Soviet infantry are more vulnerable then German infantry. This combat is NOWHERE near vcoh between rifleman and grenadiers what game are you playing? Soviets should have an armor upgrade conscripts are the main infantry unit you will be using and they are terrible in that role, unlike grenadiers due to their superior durability and lmgs.

SO you want a 1.5 armor, 6 man Con unit?

So that 1.5 armor, 4 man Gren unit penis look very small?

(Guards are 6x1.5, btw)

Guards also have an inferior dps to grenadiers.Also they can easily be defeated by panzer grenadiers and grenadiers. Did I mention that vet 2 German infantry have 2.25 armor? The same armor as vet0 shock troops.

Guards also have an inferior dps to grenadiers.Also they can easily be defeated by panzer grenadiers and grenadiers. Did I mention that vet 2 German infantry have 2.25 armor? The same armor as vet0 shock troops.

It is true that Guards have inferior DPS to grenadiers with an LMG upgrade, but that's because they're an AT squad with a button ability when upgraded. Furthermore, a Guard squad's PTRS rifles is going to make the grenadiers jump around like no tomorrow, pretty much negating most of their damage (cuz the LMG takes forever to set up when the infantry AI freaks out). You seem to be implying that you want Guard squads to be 6-supermen running around killing everything in sight. Really?

Why are you comparing vet 0 troops with vet 2 troops? What kind of logic is this? That same shock troop squad has 3.5 armor at vet 2 and 4 armor at vet 3, making them pretty much invulnerable to small arms fire. Is that not enough?

Russians also have 6 men squads, making their troops a lot harder to insta-gib with mortars, grenades, etc., which means unit retention should be easier, so I don't see any reason to compare vet 2 German infantry with vet 0 Russian infantry as if that is always going to be the case.

As far as I can tell, the design choice of making conscripts not scale into late game is because the Russians already have enough anti-infantry as it is; they don't need more. Conscripts are supposed to be used as utility units in the late-game for merging with AT guns and AT nading. Other than their weak early game presence due to flanking being not rewarded properly, there is nothing wrong with them.

I never said I wanted guards buffed, I like guards and think they're fine. You know you just described one unit there, oh yes panzer grenadiers. That 360 mp 4 man super squad with stg44s that has the highest dps in the game and suffer no accuracy penalties on the move, only 2 units can stop then over priced shock troops or snipers. Enemy armor? That is easy panzershreks. Veterancy is gained from dealing damage 75% to be exact, which means in theory German troops vet faster due to their Superior, and veteran bounuses are more useful than the soviets, in addition to conscripts are still easy to kill regardless of being 6 man squads. Also you are obviously do not play Soviets or the game since you suggested the the Soviets have to pay 240 mp for a unit that is suppose to be use less and weak, the same price as a grenadier squad, I hope you realize you have to flank a tank for a successful at grenade. What if the soviet player don't go t2 for at guns and t1/t4 instead then what?
I suppose you think shocks are so hard right? Their ppsh suffer 50% accuracy reduction firing on the move, and they have no at capabilities, so they have to get t2 or they will get decimated. Shocks can dispatched by snipers, grenades, flame halftracks, tanks, and mg42s. Also shocks only turn into killing machines when they have the ppsh,which relic took out as a upgrade and made then automatic. I was against this from the start because the Soviets float munitions to begin with. I already said they should put the upgrade back at 80 instead of 60 munitions and the mp cost reduced the the 370-400 range.

You seem mad. Are you mad? Don't be mad.

I never said I wanted guards buffed, I like guards and think they're fine. You know you just described one unit there, oh yes panzer grenadiers. That 360 mp 4 man super squad with stg44s that has the highest dps in the game and suffer no accuracy penalties on the move, only 2 units can stop then over priced shock troops or snipers. Enemy armor? That is easy panzershreks. Veterancy is gained from dealing damage 75% to be exact, which means in theory German troops vet faster due to their Superior, and veteran bounuses are more useful than the soviets, in addition to conscripts are still easy to kill regardless of being 6 man squads. Also you are obviously do not play Soviets or the game since you suggested the the Soviets have to pay 240 mp for a unit that is suppose to be use less and weak, the same price as a grenadier squad, I hope you realize you have to flank a tank for a successful at grenade. What if the soviet player don't go t2 for at guns and t1/t4 instead then what?
I suppose you think shocks are so hard right? Their ppsh suffer 50% accuracy reduction firing on the move, and they have no at capabilities, so they have to get t2 or they will get decimated. Shocks can dispatched by snipers, grenades, flame halftracks, tanks, and mg42s. Also shocks only turn into killing machines when they have the ppsh,which relic took out as a upgrade and made then automatic. I was against this from the start because the Soviets float munitions to begin with. I already said they should put the upgrade back at 80 instead of 60 munitions and the mp cost reduced the the 370-400 range.

When panzergrenadiers are upgraded with shreks they no longer do very well against infantry. You seem to be under the impression that they are still anti-infantry gods even when upgraded (not to mention, capturing a dropped shreck is deadly). By the way, grenades, mortars, and other explosions as well as sniper fire are very good versus panzergrenadiers due to four-man squad and reinforcement cost.

So when a Soviet player goes t1/t4 (hint: t4), they have no AT? What about that Su-85? Where'd that go?

When did I say I want conscripts to be useless? I even said that they're underpowered in the early game due to weak flanking, but that's a global problem and not restricted to conscripts only. But yes, when it is late-game, conscripts are meant to be used for utility, not for "ROFL-OORAH-FOR-THE-MOTHERLAND-KILL-EM-ALL!!!" That would be for Shock Troops to do. That and Soviets already have very good anti-infantry in the form of T34/T70/Katyusha (not to mention Su-76 barrage and M5 Quad) that they do not need conscripts to add to that. It's clear you've never used merge before if you think conscripts do not have utility.

You realize that Germans have to flank to faust Su-85s and that their grenadiers do not have a built-in movement speed boost, right? Also, take note that since AT grenades are lobbed they have a chance of hitting the rear armor regardless of direction thrown (mentioned in patch stream by PQ).

And no, I don't think Shocks are OP. That was just an example illustrating that it is illogical to compare vet 0 and vet 2 troops as a constant, no matter the circumstance.

Its amazing how many people can read without having read anything

+1 OP if nothing else than for your creativity and writing skills

You don't read something like this on forums everyday

He has a point...in some cases

I just wanted to take note how flexible panzer grenadiers are compared to gaurds, not to mention I have seen grenadiers with panzershreks work wonders on infantry especially with bundle grenades. Merge is scourge of the red army if you go t1/t4 then is even more useless because you do not have any weapon teams, unless you steal one or two ofcourse. The problem is that armor needs infantry support and the main line unit is conscripts which will die before the support will start being effective. All I want is for conscripts to be decent fighting units like rifle men in vcoh, also panzerfaus will always penetrate most soviet armor reliably, at grenades won't, also a su85 will not obliterate half of a conscript squad in one hit, further more orahhh is most useful early game when the Germans are still getting their mg42 in positions and are not well support but thats even a long stretch due to its muition cost increased. Using orahhh on enemy armor is to risky now that at grenades wont always cause a damage engine.

No one appreciates my creativity, and for the 2nd time I am not Russian. Conscripts have the same health as grenadier and they only have 2 extra models which are very easy to kill. German infantry are only vulnerable when there is a sniper on the field, if anything one can argue Soviet infantry are more vulnerable then German infantry. This combat is NOWHERE near vcoh between rifleman and grenadiers what game are you playing? Soviets should have an armor upgrade conscripts are the main infantry unit you will be using and they are terrible in that role, unlike grenadiers due to their superior durability and lmgs.

giving the conscripts an armor upgrade would be a mistake! they have more hp and more abilities, giving the conscripts an armor upgrade would make them a lot more superior than a grenadier squad. the problem with their survival is, as that i mentioned before is how the the grenadier lmg slaughters them. just so you know the riflemen in vcoh also die easily, they have 55 hp per man compared to a grenadiers 80 hp per man.

the only other problems are that conscripts have can't kill support teams and that they have to pay for their abilities. if they aren't killing fast enough it's not because of their dps. their dps is fine, it's their accuracy that's is terrible.

i don't appreciate your creativity because you are wrong in many aspects, and i have not called you a russian at all.

no, it would not. All infantry squads except snipers, have the same health. Because conscripts have only 1 armor and six men, they have less health per man. which means they are very easy to kill. Grenadiers in theory have more health than conscripts because they have 4 men ehich mean each model had more health than a conscript in addition to better armor. Rifleman in vcoh were weaker than german infantry but they had grenades andBARs to make up for that, here conscripts just have useless Molotoves, sometimes it does damage but most if the time it is useless. You should envy my creativity.

Wrong.

Cons and Grens have the same effective survival.
The 6man 1 armor vs 4man 1.5 armor statistically balances out.

Ignoring nullist, who has nothing better to do with his life then to troll Soviet threads. Like a child.

He's not wrong about their hp and armor however.

Ignoring nullist, who has nothing better to do with his life then to troll Soviet threads. Like a child.

Relic has already said many times that conscripts have the same survivability as grenadiers. Get that into your head and take a leaf out of your own book.

Guards also have an inferior dps to grenadiers.Also they can easily be defeated by panzer grenadiers and grenadiers. Did I mention that vet 2 German infantry have 2.25 armor? The same armor as vet0 shock troops.

Vet 2 german infantry actually have 1.5*2.25=3.375 armor at vet 1