AT & MG very poor performance, infantry reactions and visual

About the MG:

-When the MG is told to deploy it doesn't deploy until some squad members move to a certain position. Besides the fact that the deploying time is something utterly long for any MG, it also wastes some 1 or 2 seconds more before doing that due to how it's been modeled. Why do the squad members must first reach a certain position before the MG starts deploying while standing still and not doing anything until those damn useless creeps get into a position? It doesn't make any sense cause once the MG gunner got into the deploying position and just starts standing still and waiting for the squad members to reach a meaningless position it doesn't start deploying. In all this time an enemy squad can have a lot of "fun" with your MG even if initially it was apparently far enough from it, because by the time the MG finally got deployed, the enemy squad is just a second away from getting out of the MG's firing cone, and so your MG is done. All you can do from there on is to relocate it if it would make any sense anymore because it certainly already loses a squad member before it starts to re-deploy or you can simply retreat it, making you waste a lot of precious time and have your MG non-useful.

-After it finally manages to deploy (takes some years), your MG will slooooooooooowly rotate left to right in it's narrow cone as if some sort of glue is stuck to the rotating mechanism or the gunner tries to rotate the gun with the little finger only. This is bad for this game and the same happens to the AT gun as well.

-Very often, the whole MG squad dies instantly (although having no initial losses) from just one tiny and low detonation time grenade. On the other hand (probably a bug), your MG sometimes still doesn't get knocked out even after a penal squad drops a satchel charge perfectly in the middle of it or in between all the MG squad members=)) (it's hilarious).

-You can't suppress more than one enemy squad at a time, unless 2 or more are very close enough to each other. For instance if 3 squads come head to head with your MG (MG already deployed). They are generally close together, just slightly apart. After your MG engages either of them, the other 2 have plenty of time to reach the outer area of the MG's cone before the MG can actually start shooting at the next squad and force that MG to ”lala” land.

-Sometimes the MG is not engaging any enemy squad (most of the time when they are near the firing cone's edge, but still inside it) when the squads are very close to each other and almost overlapping and the MG only jerks it's gun left-right randomly and never shoots, no matter if it's being shot at or not..., it simply doesn't engage the enemy squads. This is definitely a bug because the MG should engage the first squad it randomly selects and stay on it until further instructions, but no, it's just rotating the gun left to right (although you are not giving any more commands) at 2 of the squads it's apparently looking for to shoot but never shoots either of them.

The only time when the MG is indeed useful is if by chance more than 1 squad gets suppressed and it only happens if those squads are on top of each other.

Ironically enough, from the same conditions, 3 squads of mine approaching an enemy MG head to head, further from each other than in the already mentioned scenario are being engaged. Immediately after one squad is being shot it, I order the other 2 squads to move away from the MG cone and at an almost instant time after the initially targeted squad gets suppression, the other 2 also get it, although they are further apart from each other than are the enemy squads that my MG is engaging, while my MG takes a lot of time to be able to suppress the remaining squads one after another. Is there any possibility that some players either found a bug that they abuse or are using some sorts of cheats? Otherwise this can't be explained logically as I play this simple scenario as best as anyone can and there's nothing more to do, yet still I get totally different results than against some enemy players which eventually don't prove to be special in any way during play. There are some sort of uneven tricks that some have probably learned to exploit and only ruin your fun in playing this game in the end.

About the AT gun:

-The same as the MG, the AT gun has a very poor rotating speed..., so poor that if it happens to find a vehicle in front of it, the vehicle is usually moving faster and away from the AT gun's cone before the AT can even shoot it once. Not always will the AT gun be able to shoot or hit a vehicle that is moving perpendicularly in front of the gun below the gun's half engagement distance. How could this none-sense be? This wasn't the case with COH1 and initially in COH2 (when it first appeared and it was much and way better than it is right now).

Visual distance:

How is this game attractive if all the units suffer from shortsightedness. I mean every type of unit can't be able to see anything more than 20 meters ahead. What is this League of Legends or "want to play the blind soldier"? This is the worst modern RTS in which a unit's maximum range ability can't be used because the unit itself can't see that far. This is freaking hilarious and greatly disappointing at the same time. How could this be? Your MG or AT or Tank can shoot much further than they can see? Man, if this game is the definition of absurd, then it's best at it, period! What logic does it make that if a squad (on it's own) can't see further than 20 meters or so, but if a second squad is ahead of the first one, now somehow and miraculously, the second one is also able to see what the ahead squad sees! He is not myopic anymore! It's like:

-Do you see what I see?
-Oh yeah..., I couldn't do it without you as Relic won't let me, cause that's their definition of challenging and nice.

Well..., if so, make them see just 2 or 3 meters in ahead, cause probably it would be a lot more fun than it is at the moment. Just try! See how useful the AT and MG guns can become then, even the tanks...!

About the infantry:

-Immediately after right clicking an enemy to shoot at, your squad will (for no reason nor a specific command) first go into prone position, then slowly crawl like some retards on the ground in the opposite direction (moving away from the target), then at some random spot on the ground (which has nothing to do with cover or anything) they start rotating towards the target and then eventually start shooting at it with the remaining members it has. This whole process of starting to go prone then crawl in random meaningless directions before starting to shoot, instead of instantly/immediately shoot at the designated target, takes about 2 to 2+ seconds. In all this time you may already be having one man less in the squad, only because of this stupid feature that didn't exist in the past and which now greatly reduced the gameplay performance and appeal. Ok, prone is something natural, but having the squads crawling in random directions like idiots instead of shooting when they are suppose to, besides the fact that the men rotate (while standing up) soooooooooo slowly (I haven't in my entire time of playing RTS games seen such badly modeled infantry movement), only make me want to cure/clean my hard drive and stick to other and more serious RTS games, cause nowadays, COH2 started looking more like a joke than a fun or truly playable game. When I first tried COHO (Company of Heroes Online) I was very happy of how the game was modeled (even with it's old, but much better balanced and made features) and then continued with COH1 which was a great success. After COH2 came out, some things (besides graphics) got better, but most got worse. There's no one else to blame other than the "masterminds" who decide the game modeling, limitations, features and so on..., it's because of them that this game is going more downhill.

You should try the Europe at War mod for the original game going by what you've wrote here, I think it fixes most if not all of these.

How is this game attractive if all the units suffer from shortsightedness. I mean every type of unit can't be able to see anything more than 20 meters ahead.

I think it's 35 for most infantry.

The reason is the camera height. If units had realistic ranges then just about any tank could fire on the enemy base from anywhere on the map. You'd need much bigger maps with a much further zoomed out camera to accommodate them. With the camera zoomed up that far you wouldn't be able to see your units, just little markers indicating where they are. You'd end up with Steel Division, which sounds like the game you want to play here.

This is the worst modern RTS in which a unit's maximum range ability can't be used because the unit itself can't see that far.

Then use a spotter. Support your units.

Ironically enough, from the same conditions, 3 squads of mine approaching an enemy MG head to head, further from each other than in the already mentioned scenario are being engaged. Immediately after one squad is being shot it, I order the other 2 squads to move away from the MG cone and at an almost instant time after the initially targeted squad gets suppression, the other 2 also get it

That's because you approached the enemy MG as a blob. Suppression spreads to adjacent squads specifically to prevent this.

Not always will the AT gun be able to shoot or hit a vehicle that is moving perpendicularly in front of the gun below the gun's half engagement distance.

That sounds like circle-strafing to me, which is how you fight an AT gun with a vehicle. The solution is to protect your AT gun with another AT gun, an infantry squad with a snare or some mines. Support your units.

Your MG or AT or Tank can shoot much further than they can see? Man, if this game is the definition of absurd, then it's best at it, period!

As abstracted as the CoH games are, that's actually realistic. You can fire a weapon much further than you can effectively aim it.

User has made 2 posts in total, basically about the same woes, get over it already.

This is the worst modern RTS in which a unit's maximum range ability can't be used because the unit itself can't see that far.

Units not seeing as far as they can fire is common in RTS games. (Siege Tanks in Starcraft as a good example)


This whole thread is just a huge pile of salt.

Dear God, I can only imagine the time and effort it took write that wall of crap complaining about basic game mechanics like suppression and sight. Just do yourself a favor and uninstall the game if you hate it that much because it's never going to change into something you want.

You should try the Europe at War mod for the original game going by what you've wrote here, I think it fixes most if not all of these.

Hi man,

Thx, I'll probably give it a try. Right now I'm so happy of how MOWAS2 is made as an RTS, besides Wargame Red Dragon so I don't even think I'll need anything else, but I'll try what you propose as long as it doesn't share the idiocy that we see in COH2 as it's made by Relic.

Hi man,

Thx, I'll probably give it a try. Right now I'm so happy of how MOWAS2 is made as an RTS, besides Wargame Red Dragon so I don't even think I'll need anything else, but I'll try what you propose as long as it doesn't share the idiocy that we see in COH2 as it's made by Relic.

What are you doing on COH2.ORG then?

I think it's 35 for most infantry.

The reason is the camera height. If units had realistic ranges then just about any tank could fire on the enemy base from anywhere on the map. You'd need much bigger maps with a much further zoomed out camera to accommodate them. With the camera zoomed up that far you wouldn't be able to see your units, just little markers indicating where they are. You'd end up with Steel Division, which sounds like the game you want to play here.

No! That wouldn't be a problem if an enemy tank could fire directly at your base from theirs (if the map is small enough for that. This already happens in MOWAS2 for example and almost no one complains about it, so it's more attractive than this none sense very low visibility range in COH2. Besides, the camera doesn't need to be raised, it's high enough, all you need to do is to lower it's angle so you can see more horizontally. MOWAS 2 or Call to Arms, for example is just perfect at this.

Then use a spotter. Support your units.

Yes! I've already said that's the only possibility so far, but I'm just not happy with this feature. It has nothing to do with real life and usually I like to play a game that is closer to this world as much as possible. The range of the weapon is much higher than the range of a squad's eyes. Then how the heck is it logic that somehow, miraculously, if someone "reveals" it's sight ahead, the myopic squad is able to "see" and shoot now. You know, it's all about the philosophy of this ”wrecked” game that I'm all against, not the game itself, which could be much much more enjoyable if these bad features would be taken out one after the other, until it finally gets perfect and certainly more fun for everyone and not just for some who learned how to exploit it's weaknesses and win in conditions they normally shouldn't be able to!

That's because you approached the enemy MG as a blob. Suppression spreads to adjacent squads specifically to prevent this.

Well then tell me why in the exact scenario, but from the opposite side now, when my MG starts shooting a blob, it only suppresses one after another and it can only suppress one if it fires at least 2 ripples and they are almost touching each other, not to mention how much it needs in order to also pin them. The other squads having a plenty of time to get out. When I'm doing the same, but my squads are even further from each other than for the enemies example, if one squad of mine gets supp, the other ones instantly get the same O.o although, I say it again, they are farther from each other than the enemy had them when I was engaging him. That's what I'm all curious about: Why, when I do the exact things that the enemy does, he is able to get out unharmed so easily (which is inexplicable) with the other squads, while I must use a perfect timing to suppress one and then immediately click on another and eventually if I am lucky I also suppress the other one also, while the 3rd one ALWAYS gets out of the cone, laterally, not retreating outside of the gun's range, thus making it look so easy to make fun of an MG (no matter what MG, the differences are low in the end). So this only makes me wonder if there are cheats in this game. I can't think of any other possibility while seeing this discrimination. I wish there's something that I'm not doing or maybe I ain't doing correctly, but only a recording can prove otherwise, and I'll do a recording just for the sake of these annoying aspects. Some times, my MG isn't decided who to shoot. Now this is mind blowing and it's definitely a bug because it didn't happen until some update arrived. The MG gun is sometimes moving left-right and not deciding who to shoot at while the enemy is on the move closing in on it without being fired upon. How much hilarious and stupid can this be? All you have to do is get your retarded MG out of there home.

That sounds like circle-strafing to me, which is how you fight an AT gun with a vehicle. The solution is to protect your AT gun with another AT gun, an infantry squad with a snare or some mines. Support your units.

You know..., because this game is so badly made, that is the solution indeed, to use abnormal tactics, but it shouldn't be that if it were for a more reasonable/realistic limitation or performance of the AT guns in this unusual game. Speaking of planting mines close to your at guns. What the hell is an AT gun useful to if you're holding it as a sitting duck. You must constantly move and seek vehicles with it, close to supporting squads. The player that just sits and waits at one spot eating chips and having a coke while just staring at the monitor is no player. You must constantly gain or regain territories in order to be good or win. Just standing in one spot and waiting for the other to come, is a sad playing style!

As abstracted as the CoH games are, that's actually realistic. You can fire a weapon much further than you can effectively aim it.

Correct, after later research I've found out that indeed a WW2 tank could should a shell (like an artillery unit) at around 9-10km away or slightly further, which in some conditions may be a higher distance than the human eye can see, but not always, because target size is also an important clue that we miss. If a target is small enough, the human eye can only see it at a lower range than the shells can reach it, but if the target is bigger enough, the eye can see it from further than the shells can reach. This is definitely a very far away feature from how COH is made. Not even more serious RTSs take account of this.

Cheers!

besides Wargame Red Dragon so I don't even think I'll need anything else

Wait, you play Wargame and you complain about units not being able to see as far as they can shoot?
Recon is a fundamental part of both games, but implemented in seperate ways. Firing range > sight range mechanic is a realistic portrayal and it adds another dimension to gameplay.

Dear God, I can only imagine the time and effort it took write that wall of crap complaining about basic game mechanics like suppression and sight. Just do yourself a favor and uninstall the game if you hate it that much because it's never going to change into something you want.

I can assure you it will change! If you indeed carefully read all I complained about, you would then understand that there may be some truth in it..., that you just ignore! The thing with the MG is the most annoying at any time. How it's made, it's bugs, the exploits that some players like to abuse of by using an MG or attacking an MG.

It has nothing to do with real life and usually I like to play a game that is closer to this world as much as possible.

This is the problem you're having in a nutshell. CoH 2 is Relic-style strategy game with a WW2 skin on it. It is not a simulation.

If you're after a realistic WW2 RTS then CoH 2 is not the game you're after.

...

Your problem is that you didn't inform yourself about the type of game you bought and now you are complaining about it.

Men of War is to ARMA, what CoH2 is to Battlefield. The first one are simulators and the seconds ones are arcade with a touch of aesthetic realism.

1- Spotting/sight/weapon range: the logic about it is that units far away are harder to identify, so you need "SPOTTERS" for your units to be able to use that extra range.

2- Suppression/MG: just upload a replay on which you have issues with suppression. Cover plays a fundamentally role on it (negative, light/yellow, green/heavy cover). What unit you are using, MG34/MG42/Vickers/Maxim/.50cal. Amount of models each squad have. Distance to the target. Etc.

3- If you don't like unrealistic decisions which improve gameplay, then this is not your game unless you want to mod it. If this game was like what you portray you like, it would have the same niche and amount of players as MOW (avg 1300), Call to Arms/Steel Division (300).

Hi man,

Thx, I'll probably give it a try. Right now I'm so happy of how MOWAS2 is made as an RTS, besides Wargame Red Dragon so I don't even think I'll need anything else, but I'll try what you propose as long as it doesn't share the idiocy that we see in COH2 as it's made by Relic.

Yeah no problem, I suggested it because you seemed to be aiming at something more realistic than what CoH2 can provide as of this moment, since even with it's mods (which I'm not sure if are even updated) that provide some more realism, I don't think can come close to what the modding community has done with the original game, not to mention the not so limited modding capabilities (importing models, that sort of thing).

But yes overall I too wish for a CoH game to have some Man of War features incorporated in to it such as the need to supply your infantry with ammo and your tanks with fuel and shells and that sort of thing, basically a more on-field logistics rather than just the sectors you have captured giving you resources magically over a period of time, vehicles being able to tow heavy guns (which is again possible in some CoH mods, Europe at War included) and so forth.

But there is just something about CoH's gameplay of squads, destructible environment (I can't have enough of the shells hitting the ground actually making craters compared to many other games that don't have this), base and defense building and overall just character of the Armies and units themselves that just compels me to prefer it over everything else, it just feels gritty, realistic, it really puts you in charge of these guys while in games such as Men of War it feels like you're commanding a bunch of robotic soldiers and nothing more, I actually have the same feeling in Company of Heroes 2 now as well because they got rid of all of the infantry actions such as them crouching, laying prone, running for cover which I agree is annoying at times but never the less realistic, I mean in reality you can tell a soldier to do something but you can't be 100% sure if he'll do exactly what you told him to do or how he'll do it, that RNG aspect of the game that acts as the great equalizer is not matched anywhere else.

Edit:

I actually forgot to mention that Europe at War somewhat implements a sort of on-field logistical system at least for the infantry where your unit is required to be near a truck, ammo depot or HQ building/truck to be able to upgrade and a mod for CoH2 implemented a fuel system for vehicles from the Ardennes Assault expansion but I'm not sure why, just a heads-up.