Worse patch in history !!

That says it all my friend, if you could defeat everything a german player has with conscripts, that just shows you how imbalanced the game was

No. It shows you that conscripts is all you really have.

I have had these discussions with Friends who all still claim Russians op blindly but how is it after not playing Germans for two months I load them up and it seems so incredibly easy to win compared to Soviets. Germans clearly have the advantages in infantry, Flexibility and tanks. On top of that they are much easier to play how hard is it to set down an mg and watch the conscripts be forced off the map in a huge area compared to trying to flank an mg? I think the oorah increase is a bad change that has effectively decreased a soviet players chances to get any map control early game. Also I haven't used scout cars since the first nerf as Soviets they haven't been worth it for a long time.

Germans have been OP for like the past 3 patches. The only edge Soviets ever had was Conscript spam and SU-85 spam and Maxim spam. With AT Nades being more or less useless in the late game, Conscripts are effectively worthless for scaling except keeping one or two around to merge with other infantry. Unless you pick very specific doctrines Conscripts are no good past the early-mid game and if you pick those doctrines you no longer have a reliable AT Snare(No Guards Rifles).

With the nerfs to the Maxim the Soviets got absolutely shit on because that meant their early game was entirely dependent on Conscripts due to how difficult it is to maintain map control if you go for early teching.

With AT Nades being nerfed, Soviets have to spam an early game unit that cannot scale its utility into the late game, which forces you to pick specific doctrines. If you don't want to spam SU-85s, you pick the Guards Mortar Doctrine. If you want to spam SU-85s and have some scalability with your infantry, you pick the Shock Rifle Tactics or the Conscript-based doctrines.

Anything else is pretty much a lose situation for the Soviets. They were a faction totally dependent on cheese to have any sort of success. When the cheese got fixed they had nothing.

This patch is so poor i don't know where to start!!! This update ruined any chance of a Russian fair fight against the Germans. The infantry is totally broken even in green cover. I used to be ably to handle anything the German player had just with my conscripts.. Now they cant even take on Pios.. Just terrible!

There has been no change at all to the pios, conscripts or green cover.

There's an indirect buff through clown cars now being more useless than ever thanks to increased scout car (hard counter) performance as well as increased faust damage. Oh and rifle nade refund so you have way more munitions available as germans if you choose to use that.

Increased AT nade damage as well, and scout cars are no less flimsy against guards, mines or AT nades than they've ever been. Rifle nade refund is just a fix so it doesn't charge you if you don't fire one. Hardly see how being refunded for not even using an ability qualifies as a buff.

Getting a scout car no longer forces the German player to waste 60 munis and render an equal cost unit useless at AI to counter it. SU-85s haven't been nerfed seriously, they just don't provide their own vision when scooting around any more. T-3 is now viable. The change to Oorah is just making it expensive enough that you don't use it any time you're moving somewhere and was, as Nullist notes, pretty inevitable.

No. It shows you that conscripts is all you really have.

Very funny.

@NWF... as a much lousier player, not really finding this. KV-8 + SU-85 (+optional bonus Katyusha) is still extremely hard to counter, T2/3 is much improved, snipers -> guards -> SU-85 is still very potent. MG-42s are too quick at suppressing with the bulletin and strafe/Opel Blitz is still kinda bullshit but other than that it seems more like German players are getting better at doing a big enough tier 1/2 that they don't leave so much of a gap for conscript dominance as they used to.

I don't know what it's like for team games (which are always tricky to balance) but for 1v1 it seems like a serious improvement in most of the areas that are needed.

@Cyridius... do you play 1v1s? AT nades are not 'more or less useless' in the late game. They have a 100% chance of penetrating/causing engine damage to a P-IV if they hit the rear armour and about a 60% chance of penetrating it head on.

- I consider the ammunition refund for rifle grenades rather a bug fix than a feature. It was annoying as hell to lose your badly needed ammunition as Germans for nothing.

- Soviets now have less of a chance to abuse their annoying pre-patch tactics. A T-70 rush obliterating anything is less worthwhile and those annoying sniper-spammers have also a hard time. - Thanks to the 222 buff.

- I agree however that Russians are on the back-foot now and could need some kind of buff. However I don´t know where and what.

The patch however made the game a lot more fun - especially because those lame abusive tactics don´t work any longer (Sniper spam, T-70 rush, Su-85 spam).

Has the Tiger been buffed also? I didn´t read anything in the patch notes about it. Yesterday it bounced more than half the Su-85 shells from its front. Or has the Su-85s penetration also been nerfed?

No. It shows you that conscripts is all you really have.

I'm sorry but that's pathetic, anything you say from now on is null and void. Conscripts are obviously not all the soviets have, they have more choice of infantry than the germans, as well as good armor, just as good as german.

"Oh I cant win a game by spamming conscripts constantly using hoorah! The game must be imbalanced"

Anyone argueing the fix to Rifle nades was a bad change can just go and sling themselvs off the rafters. Honestly you think it's fair to have not only resources taken off you regardless if you fire an ability AND put on cooldown?

If it was the opposite situation and Molotovs cost munitions regardless if thrown or not and got stuck on cooldown you'd all soon pipe up.

You can win as much as you want vs germans early-mid, they'll still just own you in the late game. I am done with this game until the next patch arrives.

I'm sorry but that's pathetic, anything you say from now on is null and void, retard. Conscripts are obviously not all the soviets have, they have more choice of infantry than the germans, as well as good armor, just as good as german. Twat.

The problem is, unlike russian infantry, german infantry kills things. Tbh, it doesn't even matter what infantry you build the longer the game goes on, they are all equally useless and die equally fast. Spamming cons for rapid (huehue) countercapping is still economically the most viable thing.

Pgrens need a DPS reduction and should get separate shreks. The mortar halftrack needs to be seriously looked at, that thing can turn games around on its own. MG42s are too hard to flank and can supress whole assaults even if unsupported.

People constantly claiming Sov infantry is somehow inferior, but none of them can explain why that is, or how.

You can win as much as you want vs germans early-mid, they'll still just own you in the late game. I am done with this game until the next patch arrives.

That's kind of always been the point hasn't it? German armor was more powerful back then, and has always been powerful late game, just like in COH 1. As Americans, you couldn't allow the Germans to gain fuel or you'd suffer late game.

Still doesn't explain why the majority of soviet players think they should be able to win purely with conscript spam, I mean really, what the fuck?

Rather than trying to spam infantry, try using a balanced army and apply some strategy and tactics.

That's kind of always been the point hasn't it?

What I am saying is, even if you get through early-mid by miracle and dominate your opponent and occupy the whole map, he can simply drive you of after about 20 minutes and there is nothing you can do about it. Because soviets still have _zero_ force projection. There is just nothing you can build. Kinda like Zerg in SC2, but there I can throw another hatch.

Rather than trying to spam infantry, try using a balanced army and apply some strategy and tactics.

I am rotating pretty much through every known opening and the story is always the same: I either lose early-mid to too many fuks by the german blob or I dominate the early game and then the german makes a "miraculous" comeback at about 20 minutes and then I lose. It's just incredible from what you can recover as ostheer. You need to advance extremely fast as Soviet or Ostheer gets ahead. I can tell that I'll lose if I archive map control later than the 8 minute mark.

Bullcrap Raw.

T70 rush, M3's with a little micro all have the capacity to run Osteer off the field AND kill all units on retreat. Let's not even go into the late game combo of two man gyspy snipers tag teaming with SU-85s.

@Cyridius... do you play 1v1s? AT nades are not 'more or less useless' in the late game. They have a 100% chance of penetrating/causing engine damage to a P-IV if they hit the rear armour and about a 60% chance of penetrating it head on.

I play 1v1 Germans almost exclusively.

I just tried T-70 rush last game. I forced him off the map completely, then annihilated his first Stug. Then he build the Halftrack Mortar, had one bad engagement (thanks flame mortar) and from then on it went down hill. I build 2 Su-85, one T-34 and another batch of 2xT-70 and couldn't stop the german advance. T70 funnily enough survived till the end but were ultimately rendered useless due to Stugs and Pshrecks everywhere.

If you have trouble dealing with snipers and SU-85s, build the Halftrack Mortar.

I honestly can't say what it is, but I'm personally having real problems winning with Soviets right now.

I hate using T1 but I feel like I'm obligated to.

I feel panzergrenadiers late game are op.

T-70 useless mid to late game with PIV or panzershreks on the map + panzerfaust so it's not a counter to panzergrenadiers.

This is only my experience with the game right now, maybe there is solutions so if someone can offer explanation or suggestion let me know. Probably the solution is T1 but it shouldn't be the answer to everything.

I think that once they fix the MG42 early game will be a lot better.

I really don't understand, I know what your saying, but before the latest patch it seemed the exact opposite. If I played as German and was dominated early game, there's no way I'd be making a comeback. Before this patch, no matter how much I destroyed my opponent early game, I'd lose late game.

The ONLY change in this recent patch that stands out above anything is the fix to the rifle grenades, and the buff to the scout car, also the the cost of the hoorah ability.

How the fuck does that make this patch the worst in history? And you saying your not playing until they buff the soviets is just bad sportsmanship, when soviets were over powered I still played and lost consistently because of poor balance. If you don't spend enough hours playing and testing each patch then you can't really moan can you, after all, patches are changes, and changes require us to change our tactics. Using the same tactics and exploiting weaknesses after they've been fixed is why you will do badly. Spamming hoorah now the cost has been adjusted for instance, will now cause you to bleed munitions more than usual.

The patch has only been out a day so it obviously hasn't been tested enough yet to be dubbed the worst patch in history.

Z3r07, I do actually agree with you, and feel the same way. I can't put my finger on what's changed so much (I've studied the patch notes and tried to test as much as possible), but was losing consistently as Germans until this patch. Now though I think I've won 5 and lost 3 playing as Germans which is much better. I can definitely say the scout car is much more of an asset, whether or not its too powerful I don't know.

"That's kind of always been the point hasn't it? German armor was more powerful back then, and has always been powerful late game, just like in COH 1."

Why do people insist on bringing up historical issues when this issue is brought up? Sure the German units, on paper, were bad-ass. But in reality they also suffered from breakdowns, they were built in vastly smaller quantities, they were notoriously short of fuel, and the ammunition they used, built in occupied factories by slave labor, was prone to being duds. None of that is modeled in the game. Because it isn't historical.

The Germans in total built about 35,000-40,000 tanks, including 10,000 StuGs and 6,000 P3s. Compare that to 50,000 shermans, 6,000 m10s, 2,600 M18s, 1,500 M36s (M18 with 90mm gun)

Below is Soviet tank production through the war:
Light tanks 14,508
T-34 35,119
T-34-85 29,430
KV and KV-85 4,581
IS 3,854
SU-76 12,671
SU-85 2,050
SU-100 1,675
SU-122 1,148
SU-152 4,779

Add another 20,000+ British tanks.

Historically... do you want to field 1 tank in the game for every 5 tanks the U.S. and Soviets have? Do you want it to then misfire or break down while you are advancing?

Let's stick to game balance.

The ONLY change in this recent patch that stands out above anything is the fix to the rifle grenades,

Rifle Grenades are hilariously strong, they can instagib a 6 man squad now if you're unlucky. They also frequently fuk infantry in houses.

And yes, you're right germans had trouble recovering but with cheaper tanks and incredibly strong infantry and germans figuring out how to use them it is possible to come back from anything. It's a combination of several factors.

To win as soviet you need those early game fuks (which won't happen against a competent enemy) and a lot of luck (PzIV being destroyed by a T70 for example).

What would GREATLY help Soviet play is a less retarded vehicle AI. I can't emphazise enough how a unit doing what you tell it to do would improve Soviet gameplay.

What would GREATLY help Soviet play is a less retarded vehicle AI. I can't emphazise enough how a unit doing what you tell it to do would improve Soviet gameplay.

I think this applies to both German and Soviet, the AI is still rather stupid, I've had loads of retarded retreats which end up with squads getting stuck, and telling tanks to reverse and all they do is turn around on the spot for five minutes before getting a rocket up the arse.

I really don't think there's anything wrong with rifle grenades though, no more so than the soviets grenades, I've had two whole squads of Panzergrenadiers killed in one grenade, whereas I'm lucky to kill a two man sniper squad with a rifle grenade now, they do get some nasty hits but not consistently, sometimes a rifle grenade does almost fuck all.

No. It shows you that conscripts is all you really have.

That is exactly right!! The one thing that was the conerstone of the Russian attack and defence, was the Conscripts!!

Now, micro skills dont even matter for Russian players.. You can control the whole map and by mid/late game its GG regardless of what units or combination of units you put on the field.. German win with AC/Shrek spam..