sexton: Why it suck and how to make it better.

you dont compare a low range stuka with a much longer range mobile arty unit...or? on most 2v2 maps you can stay with the prist or sexton in your own base to bomb the enemy base...while your stuka must come near to front to hit the front...or must stay in the middle to attack the enemy base.

and your lefs cant move or stay in base. think about it.

The Sexton is not the same as the Priest and are not comparable. Please refer to Firesparks posted stats to get a better idea of the difference. The Sexton range is almost the same as the Stuka if I'm not mistaken, but I can't find any specific values online - Firesparks or Vipper do you have the Stuka's range?
The Stuka has numerous advantages over the Sexton, which was already discussed in a previous thread: https://www.coh2.org/topic/70753/okw-stuka-balance-possibly-op/page/2

Well for 1, any static arty piece can be insta deleted by offmaps like IL2 bombing runs. 2nd, the IRHT can be barraged by both light and heavy arty effectivly since its a halftrack, whereas the valentine is a tank. Is the IRHT scan range larger than the valentines? I honestly don't know their ranges.

Static arty pieces getting wiped by offmaps is not a problem unique to axis nor something that should affect changes to the Sexton. If axis can get map hack, why can't allies get a version thats harder to get?

Valetine and Priest combos is already an existing scenario so buffing the Sexton's range won't create some new terriable situation that axis haven't seen before.

Valentine's armour is not that great, at best makes it resistance to mortar rounds and small arms. It can also take one extra hit from an AT gun, compared to the IRHT.

Both valentine and IRHT have a range of 120. ("the grass is always greener on the other side of fence")

Interesting, was the Valentine's search range changed at some point, as I always remember it being shorter than the IRHT?

Havent the valent a better IRC? faster search, 360 grad etc?

Think the cone of radar is bigger IRHT 120, Valentine 180.

Interesting, was the Valentine's search range changed at some point, as I always remember it being shorter than the IRHT?

I don't remember valentine's stats being touched after release. (was different call-in prior to release)

That is actually inaccurate.
"Concentration barrage" has no range limit, it will reach the end of the map even in large maps.
In addition one does need Anvil for air-bust shells.

Finally Anvil/hammer cost only 50 fuel which I wouldn't call a "load of Fuel".

I was mixed with the other commander howitzer ability, counter barrage that also uses the howitzers. So yes I concede that point to you, I made a mistake.

>50 fuel
.
It's not just 50 fuel though is it? Do you really want me to add up the entire MP and fuel investment to get to Anvil shellburst?

Ask yourself this:

Is there any offmap in the game that starts off as weak as concentration barage until you dump a load of MP and fuel researching up to Anvil? Imagine if Stuka Dive bomb only dropped a single mortar round until you researched Ostheer Tier 4. Then upon researching for the Stuka divr bomb and Panther you were locked out of the Brumbar/werfer... this is the life of brits

There would be outrage yet this commander is left in the dumps

Ask yourself this, with the valentine in the same doctrine which gives free map hacks

The way people talk about IR halftrack or valentine is as if they are some kind of god tier all seeing recon ability that stretches the entire 4vs4 map....

it's pretty situational in all honesty, I would rather have a vet 3 T-70 for that line of sight and mobility rather than the meh IR HT/Valentine. There's a reason we see them hardly built in 2vs2

the problem on mobile arty:

you can easily bomb everywhere without to fear to lose your arty.

when i build a LEFH i must pray that the enemy hasnt a off map callin to destroy it with one click. you cant even counter mobile arty effectivly...a smart player would realize it and move it out of the area.

2 sexton or priest are enough to destroy the enemy base in 15-20min..

Good thing Ostheer have a skill plane AT ability that nukes Katyushas and sextons just as easy as a dive bomb nukes an ML-20.

guess how much micro that takes after recon? one click

I was mixed with the other commander howitzer ability, counter barrage that also uses the howitzers. So yes I concede that point to you, I made a mistake.

Don't sweat it everyone makes mistake.

>50 fuel
.
It's not just 50 fuel though is it? Do you really want me to add up the entire MP and fuel investment to get to Anvil shellburst?

Anvil/hammer imo is worth its cost easily. You unlock a vehicle and get 3 bonus abilities.

Ask yourself this:

Is there any offmap in the game that starts off as weak as concentration barage until you dump a load of MP and fuel researching up to Anvil? Imagine if Stuka Dive bomb only dropped a single mortar round until you researched Ostheer Tier 4. Then upon researching for the Stuka divr bomb and Panther you were locked out of the Brumbar/werfer... this is the life of brits

There would be outrage yet this commander is left in the dumps

Ask yourself is there another off map at CP4?
Again you do no need anvil for concentration barrage it add nothing to the ability. Unlocking Tier 1 gives you access to it unlocking tier 2 gives you a second gun.

Again you do no need anvil for concentration barrage it add nothing to the ability. Unlocking Tier 1 gives you access to it unlocking tier 2 gives you a second gun.

you need airburst to make it useful for killing more than the odd gren model, really it's quite pitiful before airburst and rather useless for anything but destroying wooden buildings.

One example: If I place a concentration barrage on an MG it should not survive, but before Anvil there's a decent chance it would. Any other howi would wipe it easy and destroy the gun to boot. Firespark's numbers do not lie

you need airburst to make it useful for killing more than the odd gren model, really it's quite pitiful before airburst and rather useless for anything but destroying wooden buildings.

One example: If I place a concentration barrage on an MG it should not survive, but before Anvil there's a decent chance it would. Any other howi would wipe it easy and destroy the gun to boot. Firesparks numbers do not lie

what are u talking about ? its really good even without the air burst, it just take time to comes down so the opponent just doges it but it's the same of any other of map art

what are u talking about ? its really good even without the air burst, it just take time to comes down so the opponent just doges it but it's the same of any other of map art

load up the mod tools right now with an ML-20 vs a brit howi and conc barrage aiming at an MG. No airburst

hell compare it to any off map that costs the same, eg mech light arty. 100% wipe every time in comparison, especailly again bunkers where at times I'll be shelling a medbunker on semois in the middle and the thing will survive with 30% health or some BS because the AoE and shells fired are so pathetic.

you tell me it's really good then

Brit howis have been unreliable since release, their indirect options bar the mattress just flat out suck

load up the mod tools right now with an ML-20 vs a brit howi and conc barrage aiming at an MG. No airburst

hell compare it to any off map that costs the same, eg mech light arty. 100% wipe every time in comparison, especailly again bunkers where at times I'll be shelling a medbunker on semois in the middle and the thing will survive with 30% health or some BS because the AoE and shells fired are so pathetic.

you tell me it's really good then

Brit howis have been unreliable since release, their indirect options bar the mattress just flat out suck

just did and both killed the mg, the ml 20 sometimes at teh first shoot while the 25 pounder killed it by the second third, with the air burst it's a wipe after the first air burst and yes i tried to use it on a lfh across the map too and the air burst killed it wiTH 100 % chance while the normal 80%
for a no doc off map it seems quite good

you need airburst to make it useful for killing more than the odd gren model, really it's quite pitiful before airburst and rather useless for anything but destroying wooden buildings.

One example: If I place a concentration barrage on an MG it should not survive, but before Anvil there's a decent chance it would. Any other howi would wipe it easy and destroy the gun to boot. Firespark's numbers do not lie

I am not sure why we have to go over and over this.

Artillery Commander Concentration Barrage
The Artillery’s regiment’s Concentration Barrage has been adjusted to be like other artillery abilities that require LOS while also being less reliant on Anvil to be used to its full potential.

Can no longer fire through the FOW
Now always fires Airburst shells; does not require Hammer or Anvil

The way people talk about IR halftrack or valentine is as if they are some kind of god tier all seeing recon ability that stretches the entire 4vs4 map....

it's pretty situational in all honesty, I would rather have a vet 3 T-70 for that line of sight and mobility rather than the meh IR HT/Valentine. There's a reason we see them hardly built in 2vs2

I agree, vet 3 (or actually vet 2 is where it gets its sight) T-70 is busted AF for what the unit actually does.

Ask yourself this, with the valentine in the same doctrine which gives free map hacks, why would you buff a mobile piece of heavy indirect. You not only would create an AIDS commander to play against and probably meta, but you would indirectly destroy infantry company from USF, as the priest would no longer be used. Why use the priest when you can get the sexton and map hacks. I like diversity too, but this doctrine has too much potential to be AFK indirect king.

So the british can potentially use maphack + artillery, the same way OKW have map hack + stuka/Leig by default? In fact, the OKW had the combo first, before the british was ever released.

or how the okw also get access to the same Lefh as the wehr, and use it with the IR HT?

What's the justification for why LeFH + IR ht is not OP, but Sexton + val would be? As I clearly calculated and Stated the Lefh have a similar kill radius as the priest and ML-20.

It is a factual matter than the Sexton have a Kill radius significantly weaker than the other howitzer.

you dont compare a low range stuka with a much longer range mobile arty unit...or? on most 2v2 maps you can stay with the prist or sexton in your own base to bomb the enemy base...while your stuka must come near to front to hit the front...or must stay in the middle to attack the enemy base.

and your lefs cant move or stay in base. think about it.

There's a big difference between the rocket artillery and howitzer artillery. The stuka and panzerwerfer both finish their barrage in matter of (5?) seconds . They unload their munition and quickly fall back to safety. Most opponent is going to be busy dodging the impending rocket barrage of death.

It's a basic tactic call shoot and scoot.

SPG howitzer barrage can take up upward of 30 seconds. During which they are vulnerable and immobile.

Well for 1, any static arty piece can be insta deleted by offmaps like IL2 bombing runs. 2nd, the IRHT can be barraged by both light and heavy arty effectivly since its a halftrack, whereas the valentine is a tank. Is the IRHT scan range larger than the valentines? I honestly don't know their ranges.

really, we are keeping the british crap because of the Soviet? This is just full on whataboutish. If that's an issue that howitzer can just be more durable. Make it cost prohibitive to just munition for howitzer destruction.

The allies is not just one giant faction that a player can have access to everything at once. We are not even discuss british capability.

Pls use abilities before posting about them.

The barrage comes with air-bust shells, one does need to chose Anvil to have them.


You claimed that "The royal artillery doctrine itself doesn't have recon+ off map." I pointed out that is rather inaccurate since it has both recon and an off map.

On the claim you make here, it is rather map depended but in many maps it rather easy to capture a sector that borders a sector that artillery is usually placed and then the flares can give you vision on the enemy arty.

In the end of the day the commander is not very good for 1vs1 games and teammates can provide recon (USF get stock Reckon planes). The bottom line is the commander is good at countering enemy static artillery pieces.

If the british managed to capture an adjutant sector to the howtizer, then he deserve to destroy the artillery. This is called tactic and strategy. A unit that can't be countered with tactic and strategy is called overpowered.

Why is the howitzer being build so close to the front that its nearby sector is vulnerable to being captured by the enemy? That thing have a range of 250 meters. Unless you were going to barrage his HQ sector the howitzer shouldn't be that close to the front. Even on the giant 4v4 you should be able to cover the middle vps while being relatively safe in the rear.

and the regular 25 pdr suffer from sight penalty. Neither the US recon plane nor the concentrate barrage provide constant sight and thus the shot will be inaccurate.

The fact that the regular HE is firing from an on map entity also mean you can build sand bags to protect the howitzer. They provide 50%

Remember to regularly heal the crew and repair the gun between barrage.

If the british managed to capture an adjutant sector to the howtizer, then he deserve to destroy the artillery. This is called tactic and strategy. A unit that can't be countered with tactic and strategy is called overpowered.

Why is the howitzer being build so close to the front that its nearby sector is vulnerable to being captured by the enemy? That thing have a range of 250 meters. Unless you were going to barrage his HQ sector the howitzer shouldn't be that close to the front. Even on the giant 4v4 you should be able to cover the middle vps while being relatively safe in the rear.

and the regular 25 pdr suffer from sight penalty. Neither the US recon plane nor the concentrate barrage provide constant sight and thus the shot will be inaccurate.

The fact that the regular HE is firing from an on map entity also mean you can build sand bags to protect the howitzer. They provide 50%

Remember to regularly heal the crew and repair the gun between barrage.

My first point was and is simply a claim that "The royal artillery doctrine itself doesn't have recon+ off map." is inaccurate at best, since the commander has a Recon ability and an Off map.

My Second point is that commander is good at countering enemy static artillery piece, I never claimed it is OP.

My Third point is that getting vision on back sector is map depended, for instance in "lienne forest" it is extremely easy to get vision in most sectors.

So the british can potentially use maphack + artillery, the same way OKW have map hack + stuka/Leig by default? In fact, the OKW had the combo first, before the british was ever released.

or how the okw also get access to the same Lefh as the wehr, and use it with the IR HT?

What's the justification for why LeFH + IR ht is not OP, but Sexton + val would be? As I clearly calculated and Stated the Lefh have a similar kill radius as the priest and ML-20.

It is a factual matter than the Sexton have a Kill radius significantly weaker than the other howitzer.

really, we are keeping the british crap because of the Soviet? This is just full on whataboutish. If that's an issue that howitzer can just be more durable. Make it cost prohibitive to just munition for howitzer destruction.

The allies is not just one giant faction that a player can have access to everything at once. We are not even discuss british capability.

Claiming the LeIG is as good as a sexton is a stretch. As stated previously, OKW maphacks can be countered by arty because its a halftrack. Valentine not so much. Sexton is a mobile piece of heavy arty, LeFH is not. This really should not be hard to understand. Would you want to fight EVEN STRONGER MAP HACKS with MOBILE heavy arty in the same doctine? Most people who arn't rank 5000 4v4 players would probably want some more skill in the game instead of pressing 2 buttons.

I said "LIKE IL2". Stuka dive bomb, ostheer railway because the 1st shot is pinpoint accurate, most USF arty can all insta delete static positions.

There are plenty of ways to make the UKF better without giving the game more aids doctrines.

Needs more range or needs to be cheaper if staying the same.

Would be cool if it could work in tandem with the base howitzers. Some synergetic ability or something.

On this subject in general doesent lefh and ml20s accuracy go up if there is vision on the target area?

My first point was and is simply a claim that "The royal artillery doctrine itself doesn't have recon+ off map." is inaccurate at best, since the commander has a Recon ability and an Off map.

My Second point is that commander is good at countering enemy static artillery piece, I never claimed it is OP.

My Third point is that getting vision on back sector is map depended, for instance in "lienne forest" it is extremely easy to get vision in most sectors.

this is just arguing semantics devoid of context. The original discussion was regarding the usage of recon+offmap to instantly delete onboard howitzer without any sort of counter play.


The british fighting their way to an adjustant sector to nuke on board howitzer is the opposite of "uncounterable".

Claiming the LeIG is as good as a sexton is a stretch. As stated previously, OKW maphacks can be countered by arty because its a halftrack. Valentine not so much. Sexton is a mobile piece of heavy arty, LeFH is not. This really should not be hard to understand. Would you want to fight EVEN STRONGER MAP HACKS with MOBILE heavy arty in the same doctine? Most people who arn't rank 5000 4v4 players would probably want some more skill in the game instead of pressing 2 buttons.

I said "LIKE IL2". Stuka dive bomb, ostheer railway because the 1st shot is pinpoint accurate, most USF arty can all insta delete static positions.

There are plenty of ways to make the UKF better without giving the game more aids doctrines.

Really, LeIG/Stuka means "only LeIG"? or is it a case of specifically ignoring the stronger artillery, the stuka? Stop cherry picking word.

The OKW factually already have map hack + heavy artillery in the game. Stop using the axis gear as the hard limit of what the allies can do.

The sexton still have the weakest shell of the four howitzers and will likely remain so. The valentine is more expensive than the IR HT and will likely remain so. Is the literal Artillery doctrine not suppose to have good artillery? it's not even up to the standard of the other three howitzer. All this discussion is about what it could become.

On this subject in general doesent lefh and ml20s accuracy go up if there is vision on the target area?

yes, all onboard do.

this is just arguing semantics devoid of context. The original discussion was regarding the usage of recon+offmap to instantly delete onboard howitzer without any sort of counter play.


The british fighting their way to an adjustant sector to nuke on board howitzer is the opposite of "uncounterable".

If one does not like this debate one can avoid it by silently acknowledging that the claim:

"The royal artillery doctrine itself doesn't have recon+ off map."

is a bit inaccurate.

("Early warning" is a Recon

"Concentration barrage" is practically an "Off map" for all practical purposes (it is simply delivered from on map indestructible guns). It can be used to destroy an on map artillery piece.)
Which was my original point.