thoughts on new popcap system?

At first I thought I wouldn't like it, but once I hit popcap I kind of felt like its a good way to keep the total number of units on the field limited to a manageable size. afterall both sides are under the same rules.. I'm still undecided though - should we be limited to few heavy tanks because of their huge popcap?

Haven't played with the new patch, but on paper, it seems a bit drastic. IS2 + 10 pop. Tiger + 11... On a total of a hundred, I expect the changes to be quite big. I'm just going to have to check it out tonight.

For future reference:

Soviets
• M3A1 population from 2 to 4
• M5 Half-track population from 3 to 5
• Katyusha population from 9 to 10
• T70 population from 5 to 6
• SU-76 population from 4 to 6
• SU-85 population from 8 to 12
• T34-76 population from 7 to 10
• T34-85 population from 9 to 12
• KV-8 population from 9 to 14
• IS-2 population from 14 to 24
• ISU-152 population from 17 to 25

Germans
• 222 Scout Car population from 2 to 4
• 251 Half-track population from 3 to 5
• Mortar Half-track population from 5 to 6
• Panzerwerfer population from 9 to 10
• Stug population from 7 to 10
• Ostwind population from 8 to 10
• Panzer IV population from 8 to 12
• Panzer IV Command Tank population from 9 to 12
• Panther population from 11 to 16
• Brummbar population from 13 to 16
• Tiger population from 13 to 24
• Elefant population from 16 to 25

Popcap seems very small now when playing with it

Introduced to hide the bad performance

Been playing a fair few games today, and I'm yet to feel anything negative has come about because of the pop-cap. I'm almost inclined to say that I think it's a good thing


Unfortunately I don't know enough about the game, and much less about high-end end-game play, so my opinion on the adjustment isn't likely to be very accurate

Played some games today and I didn't really find myself restricted with the new pop cap system. Certain strategies might become redundant (for instance keeping your fuel and calling in a sh*tload of Tigers), but apart from that, I don't see too much harm in it.

Does not really make any difference in actually competitive games.

Probably ruins the day of some compstompers and people who like to play annihilation with silly massed armies.

making tanks tigers nad is2 take up more manpower allows them to make them more powerful to. so in that way its a good thing.

My very first game I tried a new start as germans (not new but new to me), which was hold the sovs and fuel till I had enough to call in a tiger and that's it. I was doing fine until the Tiger came, then the unit upkeep and MP became a big hassle. Losing units basically spelled doom and I couldn't replace them fast enough. I said this before, at least it promotes unit preservation.

I play mostly 3v3 and 4v4 for the epic scale and I can definitely feel it when the game goes on past 30 min mark...

'why cant i replace my artillery officers!!! oh, my two tigers are half of my army...'.

that said, i had one panzer IV, two tigers, two panzergrenadiers, one granadier, and two pioneers, which isnt too bad.

I just think they went too far with increasing the upkeeps with the most expensive units.

In 1v1 it is imho OK but in team games it is too much. Before the patch I had 3 tigers on the field with infantry support and it was super cool to have (well they cant kill SU85s but still cool). Now I have to suicide units to reinforce some squads in late game which is imho stupid.
Maybe they could leave it as it is but make pop cap for 2v2 something like 110-115, 120-130 for 3V3 or so on to compensate.

It's pretty ridiculous now, especially with some of the unit costs already being detrimental. Shall I pick one PG squad that will get annihilated by a molotov and struggle to kill anything because of weak inf weapons, or shall I have a tank.

Now I've finally saved up enough fuel for a doctrine unit, let me just kamikaze half my army so I can actually produce it.

COH1 had 125, this has 100 and everything is more expensive. Not helped by the fact that capping points doesn't effect the popcap anyway. In general it's pretty ridiculous. One or two extra points I can understand, but doubling some, and 50% to most of them, is insanity.

Kirsk this aint.

Agree with the general sentiment. I get the reason for the vehicle rebalancing but even in 1v1 I'm starting to hit the popcap. Howitzer upkeep seems silly right now.

Also encourages more of the bollocks VCOH suiciding units so you can get out the supertanks that were already underused.

In 1v1 it is imho OK but in team games it is too much. Before the patch I had 3 tigers on the field with infantry support and it was super cool to have (well they cant kill SU85s but still cool). Now I have to suicide units to reinforce some squads in late game which is imho stupid.
Maybe they could leave it as it is but make pop cap for 2v2 something like 110-115, 120-130 for 3V3 or so on to compensate.

seems like a good idea.

I was going to make a thread about this actually. After playing some games it feels like 1v1 is generally unaffected unless it goes very late, but team games are kind of punished right now. In a 2v2 I found myself floating 1200MP in the late game because there was nothing I could buy. It became a SC thing of "who can suicide / replace their army fastest" instead of a CoH thing of preservation and tactics.

In general though I think the idea is a good one, but some of the numbers might need some massaging. For example, I was initially shocked but then happy to see snipers as 9 popcap because it discourages spamming / hoarding them in the late game. 21 popcap for a Pak43 emplacement is a touch ridiculous though, and the supertanks suck even more now because they block a huge chunk of another possible army.

I don't like it its too harsh for heavy tanks which makes them even more stupid to build.

I was going to make a thread about this actually. After playing some games it feels like 1v1 is generally unaffected unless it goes very late, but team games are kind of punished right now. In a 2v2 I found myself floating 1200MP in the late game because there was nothing I could buy. It became a SC thing of "who can suicide / replace their army fastest" instead of a CoH thing of preservation and tactics.

In general though I think the idea is a good one, but some of the numbers might need some massaging. For example, I was initially shocked but then happy to see snipers as 9 popcap because it discourages spamming / hoarding them in the late game. 21 popcap for a Pak43 emplacement is a touch ridiculous though, and the supertanks suck even more now because they block a huge chunk of another possible army.

wow 21 popcap for such a unit is insane, its very vulnerable to offmap-arty

It's pretty ridiculous now, especially with some of the unit costs already being detrimental. Shall I pick one PG squad that will get annihilated by a molotov and struggle to kill anything because of weak inf weapons, or shall I have a tank.

Now I've finally saved up enough fuel for a doctrine unit, let me just kamikaze half my army so I can actually produce it.

COH1 had 125, this has 100 and everything is more expensive. Not helped by the fact that capping points doesn't effect the popcap anyway. In general it's pretty ridiculous. One or two extra points I can understand, but doubling some, and 50% to most of them, is insanity.

Kirsk this aint.

you're wrong everywhere, vcoh did not have 125 population it has less than 100 in all games ive played. with 1v1s barely hitting 80 when you have all the map capped.

Heavy tanks and heavy field guns like the Pak 43 should be lowered a bit. I hope they'll remember all of them when they rebalance the heavy tanks.

Until then you can also decrew your Pak 43/howitzer and put some grenadiers on it instead. They even get to keep their armor, making them more survivable against small arms fire.