Jackson Overperforming
22 May 2018, 13:32 PM
#21
10 
Posts: 4785 | Subs: 3
Cleared up some trolling and insulting posts in this thread
22 May 2018, 13:39 PM
#22
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
If a vehicle counters the Jackson it counters USF's whole vehicular lineup.
The Jackson does not need to be nerfed so much that it can be countered, but it could be toned down a little so it loses its complete dominance over any Axis tanks. It just has too many good things that make it a bit too (cost) effective. I'm on board with a slight nerf (or reversing the buff) to its mobility for example.
22 May 2018, 13:42 PM
#23
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
I agree with zarok, it could probably lose the speed a bit and still be fine. Everything else is still pretty fine imo. Using it I still find the jackson accuracy to be a bit of a diceroll at max range, and against it I've had no trouble while using 2x AT guns. Only issue I see with it is popcap abuse which is its own problem.
22 May 2018, 14:00 PM
#24
Posts: 3260
The Jackson does not need to be nerfed so much that it can be countered, but it could be toned down a little so it loses its complete dominance over any Axis tanks. It just has too many good things that make it a bit too (cost) effective. I'm on board with a slight nerf (or reversing the buff) to its mobility for example.
I'm not sure it is dominant. It's not a glass cannon like the Firefly any more but it still doesn't want to take head on slugging matches with JPIVs or Panthers.
22 May 2018, 14:01 PM
#25
Posts: 808
reduce its movung accuracy of 0.75 to 0.5 or the acceleration nerf sounds reasonable
22 May 2018, 14:12 PM
#26
Posts: 2243
The Jackson received a popcap nerf so Jackson spam is less of an issue now: any player that heavily invests in Jacksons is going to have a fairly small army outside of them.
As for its strong performance against tanks in a slugging match, that's what it's for. If StuGs could counter Jacksons then they'd counter the entire USF vehicle fleet.
lel...popcap ...as USF...never played this faction right?? you can hops out of the jackson..and wuppie..you can build an other ... LEL...popcap as USF...
22 May 2018, 14:22 PM
#27
Posts: 3260
lel...popcap ...as USF...never played this faction right?? you can hops out of the jackson..and wuppie..you can build an other ... LEL...popcap as USF...
https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/0/steamid/76561198031945233
Unless you plan on decrewing your entire vehicle fleet whenever you want to reinforce your infantry you're not going to go very far over your popcap as USF.
22 May 2018, 14:26 PM
#28
Posts: 2243
https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/0/steamid/76561198031945233
Unless you plan on decrewing your entire vehicle fleet whenever you want to reinforce your infantry you're not going to go very far over your popcap as USF.
Which infantery? In teamgame? In lategame? in lategame you can all do with shermans and jackson...repair and cap....you never played them right? you could have more than 99999999999999999999999 jackson if the game is long enough.
22 May 2018, 15:38 PM
#30
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
Didnt the jackson get some ninja nefs? Like range down to 55 and slightly less accuracy at long range? or was it patched out?
bg /l
22 May 2018, 15:40 PM
#31
Posts: 495 | Subs: 1
The point that most factions have multiple anti vehicle vehicles themselves is important to the whole TD vs TD and TD vs tanks dynamic. If any Axis armored unit hard counters the only US TD then US is screwed in the late game.
However, there is a solution.
Make the M10 non doctrinal and available to the Captian. The M10 then can be made into the medium tank killer and the M36 Jackson can be made into a dedicated heavy killer. This would result in a dynamic similar to the SU-76 vs SU-85 that Soviets have. Of course it has to be done carefully or else you end up with too much overlap or one being OP like how the SU-76 used to be.
US could use a large change to their teching structure. I will be posting a thread on how I believe it could be reworked in the future.
However, there is a solution.
Make the M10 non doctrinal and available to the Captian. The M10 then can be made into the medium tank killer and the M36 Jackson can be made into a dedicated heavy killer. This would result in a dynamic similar to the SU-76 vs SU-85 that Soviets have. Of course it has to be done carefully or else you end up with too much overlap or one being OP like how the SU-76 used to be.
US could use a large change to their teching structure. I will be posting a thread on how I believe it could be reworked in the future.
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Semper Fi
22 May 2018, 15:40 PM
#32
Posts: 464
doesnt deserve have oyu palyed them hgave oyu seen how hard is to keep riflemen alive even if oyu lose oyur volks or grens oyu got obers sodlat OP as f and panzer grens that vet so fast then axis doesnt deserve tiger and OWK doesnt deserve King tiger not commander
I am not looking for advice on how to counter Jacksons. Of course paks and pgrens are effective counters, but it doesn't change the fact that it is overperforming. Jackson is too good against OKW as well, although the jp4 can definitely go toe to toe better than the stug can.
USF doesn't deserve to have both the best mainline infantry in the game as well as the best TD. I am not even asking for a large nerf here. Like I said I think a small pen nerf at far range is all it needs. It can easily be made up for by using HVAP rounds, an underrated ability which I often see players neglect.
22 May 2018, 15:45 PM
#33
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Didnt the jackson get some ninja nefs? Like range down to 55 and slightly less accuracy at long range? or was it patched out?
'Far range' was nerfed to 55 which apparently means very slightly less accuracy and penetration at max range (so I've been told). Firing range itself is still 60.
I'm not sure it is dominant. It's not a glass cannon like the Firefly any more but it still doesn't want to take head on slugging matches with JPIVs or Panthers.
I think there's a big difference between 1v1/2v2 and 3v3/4v4 here. I don't think the Jackson overperforms in the first type of games because engagements are typically all over the place. In teamgames however, with most maps having corridor fights, the Jackson can just bully Axis armor at max range and then retreat behind a wall of AT guns when the enemy tanks counter attack. It's a bit too good at kiting because of its extreme mobility combined with huge range and accuracy/penetration and even an HP pool large enough to take some hits.
22 May 2018, 16:00 PM
#34
Posts: 138
nerfing the acceleration would just make it a sitting duck for P4 spam again, Axis armour should be a mixed composition against different vehicles. Jackson should force you to invest in Shreks, Pak, or Panther for example.
You shouldn't just be able to spam P4's and destroy everything. So it's a no from me.
You shouldn't just be able to spam P4's and destroy everything. So it's a no from me.
22 May 2018, 16:49 PM
#35
Posts: 3260
I think there's a big difference between 1v1/2v2 and 3v3/4v4 here. I don't think the Jackson overperforms in the first type of games because engagements are typically all over the place. In teamgames however, with most maps having corridor fights, the Jackson can just bully Axis armor at max range and then retreat behind a wall of AT guns when the enemy tanks counter attack. It's a bit too good at kiting because of its extreme mobility combined with huge range and accuracy/penetration and even an HP pool large enough to take some hits.
Can't the StuG and JPIV do the same in that situation?
22 May 2018, 19:02 PM
#36
Posts: 5279
nerfing the acceleration would just make it a sitting duck for P4 spam again, Axis armour should be a mixed composition against different vehicles. Jackson should force you to invest in Shreks, Pak, or Panther for example.
You shouldn't just be able to spam P4's and destroy everything. So it's a no from me.
Mixed composition eh?
"hah a p4!"
*uses jackson*
OH no a panther
*uses jackson*
Gasp! A JP4
Jackson
KING TIGER
ahem jackson
Blyat a captured is-2
Jackson
Elefant?
Flank with a jackson
Rocket arty behind the enemy lines!
Dives with highly mobile jackson
OH no a mine and a blew my engine
Uses crew In Jackson
But yea the enemy should definitely employ combined arms
#stalinwept
22 May 2018, 19:06 PM
#37
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Mixed composition eh?
"hah a p4!"
*uses jackson*
OH no a panther
*uses jackson*
Gasp! A JP4
Jackson
KING TIGER
ahem jackson
Blyat a captured is-2
Jackson
Elefant?
Flank with a jackson
Rocket arty behind the enemy lines!
Dives with highly mobile jackson
OH no a mine and a blew my engine
Uses crew In Jackson
But yea the enemy should definitely employ combined arms
Gee, I wonder what would happen if axis factions had AT guns and AT infantry.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 May 2018, 19:09 PM
#38
Posts: 5279
Gee, I wonder what would happen if axis factions had AT guns and AT infantry.
The other omi potent unit usf has. Rifles. Slap a couple bars on em ball em together and anything unarmour will die. That's the beautiful design of the usf. Many units, but 2 will do.
#stalinwept
22 May 2018, 19:11 PM
#39
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
The other omi potent unit usf has. Rifles. Slap a couple bars on em ball em together and anything unarmour will die. That's the beautiful design of the usf. Many units, but 2 will do.
Yeah, I'd like to see you do that.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 May 2018, 19:18 PM
#40
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
Is USF only baseline Tank Destroyer doing it's job such a problem?
It's not like you got any other options, because doctrinal options are usually all-rounders, the Jackson is the USF lategame and what used to hold back the faction when it was a meme.
It's not like you got any other options, because doctrinal options are usually all-rounders, the Jackson is the USF lategame and what used to hold back the faction when it was a meme.
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