Jackson Overperforming

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 07:10 AMthedarkarmadillo

Sherman has great pen on its AP shells iirc. Don't recall the numbers but isn't it 140 close and something like 120 far? That's pretty great and again, I'm going off memory here but the AP shells also have an AOE of 2 (VS the regular 2.5 of multi purpose shells) so you are not trading so much AI for pretty solid AT. It might be interesting to see what knocking that AOE down a bit and seeing what elevated pen would look like (say give it TD AOE but like +20 pen on all ranges) then the Sherman could be the medium killer OR infantry killer but falls off VS combined arms approaches.

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 08:07 AMVipper

The issue start from the fact that unit are balanced at vet 0 and little attention is given to vet bonus that are simply removed without being replaced or by giving bonus that of little use.

FF is one of the most accurate units and it receives another x130 accuracy. Panther get 10% armor which is rather pointless. Stug get armor again rather pointless.

In the Case of the M36 some of basic stat should be lowered either speed or penetration or HP or accuracy and transferred to vet bonuses.

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 08:05 AMEsxile

Sherman problems is its survivability, not its DPS vs various targets. Knowing all infantry vs you can snare you make it irrelevant in almost all situations and I have been a fervent user of Sherman "spam" strat in 2vs2 till rank 50/30.

There is nothing insentive to build a Sherman over a Jackson. Over-performance of Jackson is also due to you have to build it yes or yes, even more if you went Lieutenant first. Actually I'm using a lot Armor company so I can diversify my late game build. A M10 is enough vs medium and let me get faster Scott, then I can build a Jackson if needed.

This is something I have say since long but Jackson can never be balanced since it has to fill two distinct roles and with other AT source in support. In comparaison UKF can always field Atgun or a AEC to support its Firefly, or simply to build mines to protect its flank.

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 00:38 AMOutsider_Sidaroth

Jackson is slightly more expensive than them now, so tell me, why would you try to kill a Tank Destroyer with a Tank?

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 08:20 AMthedarkarmadillo

Sherman is more durable than most mediums because of its ability to self heal (I guess not durability but resilience maybe?) but all in all I don't disagree that every squad and it's dog having a snare is a bad design. They should be special not doled out to already versatile infantry.

Tbh when I saw the health buff I suggested swapping the m10 and Jackson instead of making the Jackson omnipotent harbinger of all things armoured as true m10 is now a mini Jackson but as y I are saying the cheaper m10 offers more options in vehicle choice (and HVAP helps when the cats ret big) and the old Jackson feels more like a doctrinal unit being somewhat niche. Strong in the right hands but shouldn't br forced... But alas we instead got a doctrinal m10 and a non doc super m10.

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 08:21 AMStug life

i was just respoding to the claim "jackson does not counter p4 well" whilw it counters it quite welll

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 08:09 AMEsxile

So it has no chance when it hits the field. Vet is a reward, not a mandatory milestone you must achieve in order to have the unit relevant.

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 08:34 AMEsxile

That's probably why Ostheer and OKW players spam Pz4 even more, because they know a jackson is going to hard counter them well.

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 09:44 AMStug life

well please tell me what other generalist tank (or good tank) they have other than p4, why do soviet spam t 34, it must be because is op right ? pather is trash and if they got jackson that means they have AI on infatry so u need AI wich panther has almost 0, kt was good but they nerfed it with the "NERF BAT", jp4 is good but only vs medium tank, stug just got rightfully nerfed but they nerfed panther too (cause fuck reason)
so yes p4 is the last good ai unit they have (and the only generalist tank)

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 10:01 AMEsxile

The only consideration about that is USF only has Jackson, so of course, you build some to counter Pz4 but doctrinal M10 is much better in that matter.

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 10:01 AMEsxile

Why wasn't they doing it before Jackson change? Why Tiger doctrines were overpicked? Jackson hardcountered Pz4 before Jackson change, it is not the case anymore so people have switch from Tiger to Pz4.

Now I have never mentioned anything about OPness, just saying Jackson isn't the go to counter Pz4, because:
1- it is much more expensive
2- It deal less damage vs Pz4 while having the same penetration rate than before.

Conclusion, I'm just stating Jackson is not the go to counter Pz4 (like it was before), nothing more, nothing less.
The only consideration about that is USF only has Jackson, so of course, you build some to counter Pz4 but doctrinal M10 is much better in that matter.

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 10:56 AMStug life

before changes jackson would lose a 1 vs 1 vs p4 (at 45 range) thanks to faster realod and hp but would deal with it well at range now it does both and has no real counter strategy other than cath it off guard (faster than PG and at guns), u can compare it to the jp4ne only counter medium armor can be flanked has limited vision and is slow so a sole t 34 can kill it alone, not the same can be said for the jackson

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 10:56 AMStug life

before changes jackson would lose a 1 vs 1 vs p4 (at 45 range) thanks to faster realod and hp but would deal with it well at range now it does both and has no real counter strategy other than cath it off guard (faster than PG and at guns), u can compare it to the jp4ne only counter medium armor can be flanked has limited vision and is slow so a sole t 34 can kill it alone, not the same can be said for the jackson

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 04:49 AMLoopDloop

Yeah if m10 was in captain you’d either have to neuter it to hell or it’d just be hilariously op. New meta would be captain and a rushed m10 followed by another 1-3 m10s with paras or rangers and ending the game at like 12 minutes before they even have mediums, and all axis lights would be basically hardcountered.

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 07:10 AMthedarkarmadillo

Sherman has great pen on its AP shells iirc. Don't recall the numbers but isn't it 140 close and something like 120 far? That's pretty great and again, I'm going off memory here but the AP shells also have an AOE of 2 (VS the regular 2.5 of multi purpose shells) so you are not trading so much AI for pretty solid AT. It might be interesting to see what knocking that AOE down a bit and seeing what elevated pen would look like (say give it TD AOE but like +20 pen on all ranges) then the Sherman could be the medium killer OR infantry killer but falls off VS combined arms approaches.

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 12:02 PMKatitof

I find this post amusing, considering the fact, that P4 max range is 40.

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2018, 12:00 PMEsxile

??