Thank you for screwing up the pop count on units guys...

And enjoying this game means that it should be balanced, and it's only balanced around the top players, so if it were me I would try not to go to some extreme but try and strike, a balance, no pun intended so that everyone can be happy.

It's balanced around skill, I'm not sure what you expect. What problems do you have with the patch?

The top 5 to 10% of players are the part of the community that are most knowledgeable about the game. They absolutely SHOULD be the ones making the decisions about balance because balance doesn't really affect the rest of the player base anyways. I also don't understand what changed that made the game so terrible to play. Personally, I have been having more fun than ever especially since the commander revamps.

I doubt any of these people know HOW the game actually works tho.

Same with vehicles, the ones driving it know how it handles and can fix a few minor problems by themselves but the mechanics are the people that actually know how and what drives the vehicle and how to fix it if there is a major problem.

It's balanced around skill, I'm not sure what you expect. What problems do you have with the patch?

I generally don't see a point since I know that you or Katitof will just send me a smartass reply like "omg learn to play" or whatever but eh, I don't really care anymore to be honest, nothing is gonna change.

My personal issue is that the British still do not have a mobile mortar, and a suggestion that both keeps them unique and gives them a mobile mortar is in my signature, is agreed upon by many people and is even made by one of the top people developing these balance patches.

But so far has not even been tested for the following reasons:

Makes the Armies similar altho nobody can explain to me why all other Armies have mobile indirect fire units that don't cost fuel and aren't called in from a doctrine, why the OKW got the MG34 instead of it being docrtrinal, Panzer IV instead of the double Panzer IV call in, the USF getting a mortar and so forth.

And I have the answer to that myself, and it is because they needed it, so why not the British get something they NEED as well?

And the other reason given was that the Scope didn't allow it altho other experimental things were tested, but not this, and it was as radical if not less as the experimented changes.

So either someone here is lying or there is major bias by one of the sides.

Listen son, I work for a living, no mommy and daddy to pay for me, my car or my girlfriend so I don't give a damn about who you are, what level you are or how well you play, I, like most of this community, just want to play this game for a few hours after work and just relax a little, while you, like I said, represent only about 5-10% of this entire community.

No intention of trolling you, but why should we care what the rest of your life is like? I also work for a living and know Zarok does as well.

Also i think you have misunderstood Zarok's point. If someone gets a hold of something OP and abuses it, it doesn't just affect the top players. Anyone, like Zarok, can do the same to people of the same or lower skill, hence his point about getting into the top 10 by spamming maxims.

Also if you do just fight AI, cant you install a mod? There are loads of great mods for this game to make it more engaging for you and give you WAY more units and maps to play with.

My personal issue is that the British still do not have a mobile mortar, and a suggestion that both keeps them unique and gives them a mobile mortar is in my signature, is agreed upon by many people and is even made by one of the top people developing these balance patches.

Literally everyone wants this, but Relic doesn't want to change it. This isn't the fault of the balance team. Relic has the final say on everything that gets into live.

Listen son,

I was going to write a post about this, but finndeed wrote one better and alot kinder than I would.

I doubt any of these people know HOW the game actually works tho.

Few do, but those few don't come from the average player pool.
And to make matters worse, I am one of the few who knows his way around stats.

The top 5 to 10% of players are the part of the community that are most knowledgeable about the game. They absolutely SHOULD be the ones making the decisions about balance because balance doesn't really affect the rest of the player base anyways. I also don't understand what changed that made the game so terrible to play. Personally, I have been having more fun than ever especially since the commander revamps.

You are confusing rank with knowledge of game mechanics, they are different the same way a driver does not have a better understanding of car than a mechanic. If you watch high level player's streams you might notice that some time they make comments about game mechanics that are simply wrong. The average moder has usually much more knowledge than the average player.

Only Relic makes decision about balance because it is their game.

Finally this is forum for people to provide their opinion, only moderator should have a say on who and how the provide their opinion.

Lmao this thread got derailed a little.

Hi, Zarok here, I am a top 50 player and if a change made to placate the mediocere players would result in a unit becomg OP if used by me, what do you think would happen?
I would start a literall killing spree, ranking all the way up to top 5 and utterly destroy the hapless players who are apperently the target audience for this change.

Sincerely,
The maxim spammer.

No you wouldn't because those other 49 or so players would still have access to the same units and factions you do, and if you're top 50 you're already destroying mediocre players anyway. Look my issue here is pop cost which is a little different than the other costs associtated with units like fuel and MP.

Adjusting a units stats and cost is one thing but when you mess with its pop count (by adjusting it upwards) that has the effect of reducing the overall size of armies a player can field which also reduces the combination of units and in effect the number of overall strategies a player can come up with. I hate to see them increase the pop count of ANY units at this point, they really should have reduced the Panther and Comet back to 16 and left the Pershing alone.

If a popcap exists it might as well be a meaningful restraint. Before the popcap values seemed a little arbitrary. Now they're tuned so that units that lose value in the late game (like light vehicles) are very efficient with popcap and units that used to be spammed in the late game (like tank destroyers) will severely limit your army size if you build too many.

The top 5 to 10% of players are the part of the community that are most knowledgeable about the game. They absolutely SHOULD be the ones making the decisions about balance because balance doesn't really affect the rest of the player base anyways.

Ones skill in the game is no guarantee of skill in balancing. Plus did everyone listen to them on luch build timing? Give it a 80 second build time they said, it comes too fast they said. Well look how that change went about. Luchs went from a unit that had a short window of usefulness to useless and the change was partially reverted.

Ones skill in the game is no guarantee of skill in balancing. Plus did everyone listen to them on luch build timing? Give it a 80 second build time they said, it comes too fast they said. Well look how that change went about. Luchs went from a unit that had a short window of usefulness to useless and the change was partially reverted.

Who do you suggest be in charge of balance instead? Of course the balance team makes changes that I don't agree with either and a 80 second luchs is a perfect example. However, they have at least demonstrated they can create reasonable patches instead of the atrocities Relic have created on their own in the past.

Besides, players like you are the ones who SHOULDN'T have any say in balance. I have seen your playercard and know you pretty much only play OKW. You are a good player but that kind of bias is not conducive to good balance discussions.

Plus did everyone listen to them on luch build timing? Give it a 80 second build time they said, it comes too fast they said.

That's simply untrue. The feedback was only that the pre-DBP Luchs timing was too fast. No numbers involved.

A 75 second build time was put into DBP and then pushed to live with no testing. The problem here is Relic's strange aversion to testing the final iteration of their balance patches.

That's simply untrue. The feedback was only that the pre-DBP Luchs timing was too fast. No numbers involved.

A 75 second build time was put into DBP and then pushed to live with no testing. The problem here is Relic's strange aversion to testing the final iteration of their balance patches.

Which is why we get bugs like the one I posted here.

As far as the balace patch goes all I have to say is professional game testers exist for a reason, they should be the ones suggesting changes after making gameplay tests for balance and bugs ect., not the amature community. Now don't get me wrong, I'm glad the game is still supported and I'm sure the community volunteers aren't making bank doing this but sometimes I have to wonder if there us too much bias involved with dedicated members of the community vs the impartiality of professional game testers.

It's got nothing to do with bias or the quality of testing. The 75 second Luchs went live because it didn't get tested at all. The same thing happened with SBP: the final iteration of the patch got pushed straight to live without the balance testing team ever seeing it.

+ 1 for A. Soldier.

Since I'M signed in here, A.Solder has a total of 12 games (For like 2-3 years now).

I don't know why he comments on a game he doesn't play and why you keep answering him

Since I'M signed in here, A.Solder has a total of 12 games (For like 2-3 years now).

I don't know why he comments on a game he doesn't play and why you keep answering him

I was waiting for da iconic "playarcard pls" comment and now i am highly disappointed #MVGame

Whatever is needed to satisfy the "elite" competitive community and their complaints.

Fun thing is pop changes are 100% on Relic, only lowering the okw pop cap was discussed on the balance thread.

Since I'M signed in here, A.Solder has a total of 12 games (For like 2-3 years now).

I don't know why he comments on a game he doesn't play and why you keep answering him

Yes but he has (almost) all the compstomp Achievement, he is missing those who require you to beat hard computer...

Since I'M signed in here, A.Solder has a total of 12 games (For like 2-3 years now).

I don't know why he comments on a game he doesn't play and why you keep answering him

maybe he just plays a lot custom games

ok seriously, this is actually pretty accurate and I have mentioned this in the past as well, but A.Soldier just pulled the custom-game card then