small tech change to OKW to fix their healing problem

Mind:

-SPio medic crate only costs 30 munis for 3 uses
-Doesn't require the squad using it to remain stationary after picking it up
-Doesn't require the Spio to remain in proximity of the one who picked it up so you don't need to blob to heal multiple squads of infantry
-Not reliant on vehicles prone to being nuked (Ambulances)
-Doesn't require vet to put down
-Set up time is nigh-instant
-Can be put even in enemy territory
-Available at T0
-Potent enough to heal a squad to full HP
-Easier to micro with because you don't need to monitor unit HP, just shift-move to a crate, then move the squad anywhere
-And once again, only requires 30 munis with no manpower pricetag if you kept your first SPio alive.

Compared to literally every other faction's healing options, this has more perks at the cost of being something you have to put down every 3 uses.

Assuming your units hit vet 4-5, they can even self-heal out of combat, and if you pick the medic truck, you might not even need to put it down in the first place.

If you want to argue a "healing problem", just look at Soviets, who literally only have base medics as a healing option.

On a side note, your idea doesn't actually add anything to mechanised build. Think of it. Right now if you want both fast mechanised unit (probably luchs) and base healing, you would go mechanised first, then you would build the luchs and go for the second truck with its upgrade. With your changes, you would have to go for mechanised, upgrade it to produce units, build luchs and then build second truck. That way you pay exactly the same, but you get the luchs later and you can't build units from battlegroup. The only advantage you get is the free repair upgrade, but that comes before any units you could repair, unless you go for multiple kubels. For most builds, single luchs and single kubel can be quickly repaired by sturmpios. Base repairs really becomes important only at medium tank level and up.

The advantage is you're not paying 200 MP 25 FU for the Battlegroup's unit production. You're right in that having to pay 100 MP 15 FU for the repair pios largely offsets that so you'd have to change the starting fuel to put all the rush times back where they were.


Another (probably better) way to do it would be to structure the trucks like this:

100 MP 15 FU to build a SWS Supply Halftrack.

Battlegroup Headquarters (0 MP 0 FU)
- Mobilize Battlegroup (200 MP 25 FU)
Unlocks the truck's units, the FRP upgrade and enables the truck's reinforcement ability.
- Field Medics (100 MP 15 FU)
Adds medics.

Mechanized Regiment Headquarters (0 MP 0 FU)
- Mobilize Mechanized Regiment (200 MP 50 FU)
Unlocks the truck's units.
- Repair Pioneers (100 MP 15 FU)
Adds repair pioneers.

Panzerfausts and the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters require a Mobilize upgrade to be purchased.

That'd work pretty much exactly as now except if you just want medics you pay 200 MP 30 FU instead of 400 MP 55 FU.

Guaranteed AT gun and guaranteed mg isnt enough? They need to be able to get aggressive lights AND potent healing? Ill just sit over hear with my stuart and my 50 cal.

You have a choice as OKW. Aggression or more passive. Agression lets you unlock repair lads to keep the pressure up with your pios and passive lets you keep the line with medics. If you dont go either one your sturm pios fill in the blank. You cant have everything. Hell look at the brits! They have to pay a side tech and completely lock out shit if they want a light tank! But the only self healing stock (and not even just elite stock) units and heal 3 squads anywhere (VERY powerful if you didnt drop a model in the first engagement) isnt enough?

The advantage is you're not paying 200 MP 25 FU for the Battlegroup's unit production. You're right in that having to pay 100 MP 15 FU for the repair pios largely offsets that so you'd have to change the starting fuel to put all the rush times back where they were.


Another (probably better) way to do it would be to structure the trucks like this:

100 MP 15 FU to build a SWS Supply Halftrack.

Battlegroup Headquarters (0 MP 0 FU)
- Mobilize Battlegroup (200 MP 25 FU)
Unlocks the truck's units, panzerfausts and the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters.
- Field Medics (100 MP 15 FU)
Adds medics and enables reinforcement. Unlocks the Forward Retreat Point upgrade.

Mechanized Regiment Headquarters (0 MP 0 FU)
- Mobilize Mechanized Regiment (200 MP 50 FU)
Unlocks the truck's units, panzerfausts and the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters.
- Repair Pioneers (100 MP 15 FU)
Adds repair pioneers.

That'd work pretty much exactly as now except if you just want medics you pay 200 MP 30 FU instead of 400 MP 55 FU.

I could see that work, although one would have to increase the cost of medical/repair upgrades if they are able to be set up without the rest of truck cost. Otherwise this is not only going to be the most durable forward healing, reinforcement (and possibly retreat) point but also the cheapest one. Which is kind of crazy.

I could see that work, although one would have to increase the cost of medical/repair upgrades if they are able to be set up without the rest of truck cost. Otherwise this is not only going to be the most durable forward healing, reinforcement (and possibly retreat) point but also the cheapest one. Which is kind of crazy.

I see your point on it being used as a stationary super-ambulance. That'd be fixed by locking reinforcement and the FRP unlock behind Mobilize Battlegroup instead of Field Medics. I'll revise it.

Man this thread.
"Hey guys, it's fine to have shit healing for OKW, because unlike any other faction they've got a whopping 2.5 healing options that all suck ass in a different interesting way! Just look at the tactical variety!"

Mind:

-SPio medic crate only costs 30 munis for 3 uses
-Doesn't require the squad using it to remain stationary after picking it up
-Doesn't require the Spio to remain in proximity of the one who picked it up so you don't need to blob to heal multiple squads of infantry
-Not reliant on vehicles prone to being nuked (Ambulances)
-Doesn't require vet to put down
-Set up time is nigh-instant
-Can be put even in enemy territory
-Available at T0
-Potent enough to heal a squad to full HP
-Easier to micro with because you don't need to monitor unit HP, just shift-move to a crate, then move the squad anywhere
-And once again, only requires 30 munis with no manpower pricetag if you kept your first SPio alive.

Compared to literally every other faction's healing options, this has more perks at the cost of being something you have to put down every 3 uses.

Assuming your units hit vet 4-5, they can even self-heal out of combat, and if you pick the medic truck, you might not even need to put it down in the first place.

If you want to argue a "healing problem", just look at Soviets, who literally only have base medics as a healing option.

1. Would you please remind me the cost of OST or UKF healing upgrade? Because I'm fairly certain that 60 MU for infinite healing is a tad bit better than 30 MU for 3 squads. But hey, that's just me.
2. Just like brits.
3. Lol, that just made my day. You don't need to blob infantry around 1 crate because you can't heal multiple units with 1 crate. Boy, what a huge advantage.
4. Ambo has a tradeoff for the ability to move freely and provide forvard healing, but let's just conviniently forget about that. Maybe it'll be added to Mittens' list of complaits along with such gems as freedom blobs being outscaled by volks and USF's inability to fight heavy armor.
5. That would just make them even more useless, wouldn't it?
6. As opposed to all those healing options that require a setup time?
7. Yes, it can. If you are feeling like gifting your enemy some free healing with your own resources, scince crates are stationary.
8. As opposed to all those non-OKW healing options that are locked behind tiers?
9. Lolno, it is not.
10. Not much advantage over brits. But than again I'd argue that any healing does not requre much micro.
11. See №1.

I would gladly take soviets' healing over OKW's mess any day.

Man this thread.
3. Lol, that just made my day. You don't need to blob infantry around 1 crate because you can't heal multiple units with 1 crate. Boy, what a huge advantage.
I would gladly take soviets' healing over OKW's mess any day.

I think there is an attempt to fix this with the next patch, but you can totally heal multiple units with 1 crate.

I think there is an attempt to fix this with the next patch, but you can totally heal multiple units with 1 crate.

Specifically there's a bug where if you select a crate with multiple units at once they all proc it simultaneously and all get the healing. They can't fix it so they're making it a feature.

Specifically there's a bug where if you select a crate with multiple units at once they all proc it simultaneously and all get the healing. They can't fix it so they're making it a feature.

Ok, seems like I was wrong here. It is still exploit level though.
I would much rather preffer them removing crates altogether and moving medics to T0.

Ok, seems like I was wrong here. It is still exploit level though.

And next patch on, its not.

I would much rather preffer them removing crates altogether and moving medics to T0.

Oh I'm sure you would.
Still not going to happen.

I always felt that it isn't too crazy a thought for the OKW HQ to be able to upgrade medics or repair pios when either the medic or mech truck is set up.

Or even just medics, specially with the FRP changes that occurred.

But of course, not going to happen, or even be explored. There's too many other important things that need to be addressed. I mean, can you imagine a CoH2 without handbrakes?

Man this thread.
"Hey guys, it's fine to have shit healing for OKW, because unlike any other faction they've got a whopping 2.5 healing options that all suck ass in a different interesting way! Just look at the tactical variety!"



1. Would you please remind me the cost of OST or UKF healing upgrade? Because I'm fairly certain that 60 MU for infinite healing is a tad bit better than 30 MU for 3 squads. But hey, that's just me.
2. Just like brits.
3. Lol, that just made my day. You don't need to blob infantry around 1 crate because you can't heal multiple units with 1 crate. Boy, what a huge advantage.
4. Ambo has a tradeoff for the ability to move freely and provide forvard healing, but let's just conviniently forget about that. Maybe it'll be added to Mittens' list of complaits along with such gems as freedom blobs being outscaled by volks and USF's inability to fight heavy armor.
5. That would just make them even more useless, wouldn't it?
6. As opposed to all those healing options that require a setup time?
7. Yes, it can. If you are feeling like gifting your enemy some free healing with your own resources, scince crates are stationary.
8. As opposed to all those non-OKW healing options that are locked behind tiers?
9. Lolno, it is not.
10. Not much advantage over brits. But than again I'd argue that any healing does not requre much micro.
11. See №1.

I would gladly take soviets' healing over OKW's mess any day.

1. Ost healing requires 150MP + 60MU, and since it's usually put in the base, you can't heal on the field unless you use the single-squad single-use heal that comes with vet on Ost infantry.

At the same time, UKF requires you to blob infantry to heal them, so anything you want healed has to have the squad upgraded with the medkit to be outside of combat, alongside the unit you want healed. That's at least two squads outside of combat in order to get healing.

2. And only Brits can heal while moving. USF ambulance requires you to stay within the healing radius in order to receive healing. Same goes for Soviet, Ost and OKW medics.

3. Except you can heal up to 3 squads per crate. You can merely set the crate as a waypoint to pick up while each squad does their thing. You're not obligated to keep squads in a specific area until they're healed. They can just pick it up and perform a task rather than wait. Squad 1 can pick up a crate and go to point 1, squad 2 can pick up a crate and go to point 2, and squad 3 can do the same.

4. With a 3 second set-up/pack-up time that usually gets it destroyed the second a tank decides to charge through. But aside from that, bunkers can be shelled with at least 2 mortar barrages before being destroyed, the OKW medic truck, even moreso. You can literally put down a medic crate behind a sight/shotblocker while in combat and heal up.

5. Compared to Ost infantry.

6. Ambulances that require a safe spot in territory that isn't in conflict... Bunkers that have be put down and risk being an artillery magnet...

7. Except one squad can pick up all the kits you don't want the enemy to get. In the first place, you'd be putting it down to get on-demand healing for multiple squads.

8. In the first place, you aren't even going to put in MP for healing because you want more squads early-game.

9. Oh, but it is.

10. See no.3

11. 10 munis per use is a fairly efficient stopgap if you intend on skipping out on T1 in favor of a Luchs opening.

And next patch on, its not.

Still doesn't make it a good decision.

Oh I'm sure you would.
Still not going to happen.

Thank you for you concern, Katitof.
Still, I'll proceed to voice my opinion regardless of the fact wether or not you think something is going to happen.

There is a medical truck in game as a tech structure for OKW.
It makes completely no sense to bound medics to any other structure they have.

Soviets just get ladies with bags. I think it's plausible that some medics could stand by the headquarters truck too. Or instead.

Soviets just get ladies with bags. I think it's plausible that some medics could stand by the headquarters truck too. Or instead.

Soviets also do not have anything even remotely looking like a field hospital or ambulance.
Contrary to certain truck tech structure.

1. Ost healing requires 150MP + 60MU, and since it's usually put in the base, you can't heal on the field unless you use the single-squad single-use heal that comes with vet on Ost infantry.

At the same time, UKF requires you to blob infantry to heal them, so anything you want healed has to have the squad upgraded with the medkit to be outside of combat, alongside the unit you want healed. That's at least two squads outside of combat in order to get healing.

2. And only Brits can heal while moving. USF ambulance requires you to stay within the healing radius in order to receive healing. Same goes for Soviet, Ost and OKW medics.

3. Except you can heal up to 3 squads per crate. You can merely set the crate as a waypoint to pick up while each squad does their thing. You're not obligated to keep squads in a specific area until they're healed. They can just pick it up and perform a task rather than wait. Squad 1 can pick up a crate and go to point 1, squad 2 can pick up a crate and go to point 2, and squad 3 can do the same.

4. With a 3 second set-up/pack-up time that usually gets it destroyed the second a tank decides to charge through. But aside from that, bunkers can be shelled with at least 2 mortar barrages before being destroyed, the OKW medic truck, even moreso. You can literally put down a medic crate behind a sight/shotblocker while in combat and heal up.

5. Compared to Ost infantry.

6. Ambulances that require a safe spot in territory that isn't in conflict... Bunkers that have be put down and risk being an artillery magnet...

7. Except one squad can pick up all the kits you don't want the enemy to get. In the first place, you'd be putting it down to get on-demand healing for multiple squads.

8. In the first place, you aren't even going to put in MP for healing because you want more squads early-game.

9. Oh, but it is.

10. See no.3

11. 10 munis per use is a fairly efficient stopgap if you intend on skipping out on T1 in favor of a Luchs opening.

1. And crates are also only put in you base, because they are immovable just like a bunker. They are very rarely deployed anywhere else for the same reason OST does not typically build forward bunkers in 1s and 2s. It's extremely inconvinient, inefficient and vulnerable to the enemy. The whole forward healing edvantage people are trying to push here is nonexistent.

UKF's healing is mobile, infinite, does not constantly drain your MU and has an aura. It is significantly better than crates.

2. Yes? That's why I wrote just like brits.

3. No you can't without an exploit. SP drop a stack of 3 crates and you only heal 1 squad per crate. Also, unless you rolled some really nice RNG chances are you are still going to need to reinfocre lost models after retreat most of the time and medics will heal damaged models while they do that. So practically there is very little advantage here uless you want to send out not fully reinforced squads back to the field.

4. As I sad, that's a tradeoff if you got too greedy and pushed the ambo too deep and made it vulnerable. Same goes for every other thing you mentioned including crates. BTW, you can't heal while in combat and you better have at least 3 squads where you placed it, otherwise you are wasting even more MU.

5. What's the argument here? Something being better than terrible doesn't make it good.

6. See №4.

7. Do you even realise that this makes it an even bigger waste of MU in this situation? 30 per squad just to deny it to your enemy? What a bargain.

8. In the first place, you aren't even going to put in MU for healing because you want more grenades for garrison clearing and winning engagements in the early-game.
See, works both ways.

9. Want me to run a test?

11. And then need to backtech for a mere 400MP + 50FU if you don't want to bleed MU like a pig the rest of the game.

1. And crates are also only put in you base, because they are immovable just like a bunker. They are very rarely deployed anywhere else for the same reason OST does not typically build forward bunkers in 1s and 2s. It's extremely inconvinient, inefficient and vulnerable to the enemy. The whole forward healing edvantage people are trying to push here is nonexistent.

you are GREATLY overstating the drawbacks of the medkits here. they are like bunkers are they? iirc players dont forward build bunkers because they cost 125mp and 60mu, not because they are immobile. and if you are so bad at soft retreats and holding ground that a 3 use med kit can fall into enemy hands i really dont know what to tell you... you have NEVER pushed off an enemy with 2 volks and a sturm before? if they introduce a level lower than easy bots you might get the chance to see the advantage of being able to do that then heal up and have full health squads without giving up a lick of field presence

3. No you can't without an exploit. SP drop a stack of 3 crates and you only heal 1 squad per crate. Also, unless you rolled some really nice RNG chances are you are still going to need to reinfocre lost models after retreat most of the time and medics will heal damaged models while they do that. So practically there is very little advantage here uless you want to send out not fully reinforced squads back to the field.

and if the enemy is forced off and you dont take losses or drop say a single volks model what then? ever played against white phospherus? its nice not having to retreat. do you know what the soviet do if they take a shit kicking and dont drop models? the only thing they can do- pay more than a squads worth of MP and retreat to base. no exceptions. double whammy on the field presence AND they are only going to heal half a squad at a time. so boo fucking who that it costs a grenades worth of munitions to bring 3 squads up to fighting strenght on field, on demand without so much as delaying your push

4. As I sad, that's a tradeoff if you got too greedy and pushed the ambo too deep and made it vulnerable. Same goes for every other thing you mentioned including crates. BTW, you can't heal while in combat and you better have at least 3 squads where you placed it, otherwise you are wasting even more MU.

do yours expire or....? cuase when I use them im pretty sure they stay in the nice safe place i left them until i use them. i swear the players who learned to play before "blob you infantry at the enemy then mass retreat to FRP rince and repeat" WFA was released never learned what EFA players called a soft retreat...

7. Do you even realise that this makes it an even bigger waste of MU in this situation? 30 per squad just to deny it to your enemy? What a bargain.

you have the OPTION of using them all up to deny them to your enemy, much like you have the OPTION to gain 5 fuel and deny the enemy a team weapon you dont HAVE to. which is the worse of 2 evils? pay 0 mu to heal your squad or pay 30 muy to heal 1 (or 2) of your squads and 2 (or 1) of the enemies? are you REALLY worse off paying 30mu for a freshly healed unit ON THE FRONT than give your enemy free healing? you sao sure about that?

8. In the first place, you aren't even going to put in MU for healing because you want more grenades for garrison clearing and winning engagements in the early-game.
See, works both ways.

ever charged into battle with a 5 model volks squad with 10% health? no matter how many grenades you hgave you will not win that engagement because having a fully healed unit is more important than grenades. having a fully healed unit you never had to waste 2 min running to and from base and are able to keep feeding the enemy pressure is even better

11. And then need to backtech for a mere 400MP + 50FU if you don't want to bleed MU like a pig the rest of the game.

boo who? if a USF player decides to get an .50 cal? what do they do for an AT gun? back tech and you know what their back teching doesnt give them? a forward healing/reinforcement point nor access to a super heavytank

its called a choice. make it. or you can wait for your infantry to LITERALLY heal themselves for no investment at all.
you cant have it all

Ok, seems like I was wrong here. It is still exploit level though.
I would much rather preffer them removing crates altogether and moving medics to T0.

I definitely wouldn't like getting shitty soviet healing over current okw healing system. In no way that is advantegous for okw.

Soviets also do not have anything even remotely looking like a field hospital or ambulance.
Contrary to certain truck tech structure.

Soviets actually get forward headquarters in urban defence commander that gets additional medics (6 if I remember correctly) and other buffs. Of course it is expensive and very map dependant, yet that technically is field hospital.

you are GREATLY overstating the drawbacks of the medkits here. they are like bunkers are they? iirc players dont forward build bunkers because they cost 125mp and 60mu, not because they are immobile. and if you are so bad at soft retreats and holding ground that a 3 use med kit can fall into enemy hands i really dont know what to tell you... you have NEVER pushed off an enemy with 2 volks and a sturm before? if they introduce a level lower than easy bots you might get the chance to see the advantage of being able to do that then heal up and have full health squads without giving up a lick of field presence

Oh, I'm sorry, did "Hurr durr l2p nub" officially become a valid argument? My bad, must have missed it. Hope you aren't too mad about it, given all the caps and stuff.
GJ ignoring all my points and going straight for personal attacks though.

and if the enemy is forced off and you dont take losses or drop say a single volks model what then? ever played against white phospherus? its nice not having to retreat. do you know what the soviet do if they take a shit kicking and dont drop models? the only thing they can do- pay more than a squads worth of MP and retreat to base. no exceptions. double whammy on the field presence AND they are only going to heal half a squad at a time. so boo fucking who that it costs a grenades worth of munitions to bring 3 squads up to fighting strenght on field, on demand without so much as delaying your push

Then it is an extremely specific situation that can not be used to balance a healing mechanism for the whole faction around it. You need at least 2 volks and 1 a SP squad (that is not overtasked at all at this point BTW), all of them taken some damage but still with a decent model count so healing them doesn't become irrelevant in terms of staying power. Any other situation and you are wasting MU, or you are leaving crates on the ground, leading them to either be captured by an enemy or requiring you to move a damaged unit to their location which is as safe and convinient as it sounds. Oh and did I mention that all of this can be easily wasted if anything engages your units in the process of healing, scince you can't heal in battle?
Truly an amazing system. If only relic would add a faction that had exactly this, but mobile, infinite and with non of original's drawbacks for a somewhat bigger price? Say, 60 MU?
Nah, that would never happen.

ever charged into battle with a 5 model volks squad with 10% health? no matter how many grenades you hgave you will not win that engagement because having a fully healed unit is more important than grenades. having a fully healed unit you never had to waste 2 min running to and from base and are able to keep feeding the enemy pressure is even better

Yeah, that's why every faction gets some sort of nontech reliable healing. Except OKW. They get nontech crates that are like british healing, but worse in every way and constantly bleed you MU. But hey, it's not like the game is supposed to be balanced or anything.

boo who? if a USF player decides to get an .50 cal?

They'll get a potent free infantry squad.

what do they do for an AT gun?

They'll get another potent free infantry squad.

back tech and you know what their back teching doesnt give them? a forward healing/reinforcement point

Indeed. They get forward healing with no tech and FRP with T3's another free infantry squad. IKR, what a huge disadvantage.

nor access to a super heavytank

Yeah, USF also gets it thech free, provided a player goes for a specific commander.

its called a choice. make it. or you can wait for your infantry to LITERALLY heal themselves for no investment at all.
you cant have it all

Damn, I must have missed the part where volks get free vet5 with absolutely no effort. Care to show me where to find this function?