soviet mortar should not get flare by default

This scouting ability is too powerful combined with their durability and artillery.

the soviet faction as a whole is already very forgiving. All of their infantry squad and support weapon have six man, compared to the usual 4-5 of the other faction.

This mean their troops can stumble onto an enemy and survive the encounter more easily

By comparsion, the wehr may have better artillery, but their squads are on average the least durable in the game. The wehr faction as a whole is a glass cannon.

The easy availability of the 82mm flare ability allow the sov to scout out the enemy and shell them with accurate artillery fire without needing to put their units at risk. Considering their durability the soviet faction is the one least in need of such a powerful combo.

If we include the doctrinal artillery as well, the soviet probably have the best selection of artillery as well. All of them benefit considerably from the sight provided by flare.

This scouting ability is too powerful combined with their durability and artillery.

the soviet faction as a whole is already very forgiving. All of their infantry squad and support weapon have six man, compared to the usual 4-5 of the other faction.

This mean their troops can stumble onto an enemy and survive the encounter more easily

By comparsion, the wehr may have better artillery, but their squads are on average the least durable in the game. The wehr faction as a whole is a glass cannon.

The easy availability of the 82mm flare ability allow the sov to scout out the enemy and shell them with accurate artillery fire without needing to put their units at risk. Considering their durability the soviet faction is the one least in need of such a powerful combo.

If we include the doctrinal artillery as well, the soviet probably have the best selection of artillery as well. All of them benefit considerably from the sight provided by flare.

not to mentio all this indirect fire from sov faction....even their TDs and AT guns can wipe squads easily...they are often have more infantery kills than the ISG from OKW.

playercard pls

Well, if the Soviet mortar buff to the Wehrmacht / US level mortar, the flare mine can be turned back to the 1st level of the vet. Now this is the weakest and most ineffective mortar.

Wait until he finds out OKW have Walking stuka and UHU together for precision wipes with a literal permanent map hack.

I didn't realize Flares were so OP - it must be why you see nothing but Rifle Company and Fusi spam for their Flares too. Not to mention the sad fact that they created Jaeger Command Squad but OST players use him as nothing more than a Flare platform. Soviet Mortar definitely needs a nerf if it's going to keep it's Vet 0 Flares - might I suggest moving it's reload from 10 seconds to 15?

I'd rather give flares to all factions. USF especially when I play them I find their tools very powerful, but I can never get vision on hunkered down opponets to pick away with my jackson or find a soft flanking spot. M20 doesn't cut it lategame due to fragility and I'm not too fond of sending in a rifleman to be shot at by an MG42.

Since you started complaining about the soviets as a whole in just the 2nd paragraph, I'm gonna say your argument about the flares could use some better points.

Why should pioneers get extra vision if a munitions scouting ability on the soviet mortar is unfair?

Since you started complaining about the soviets as a whole in just the 2nd paragraph, I'm gonna say your argument about the flares could use some better points.

Why should pioneers get extra vision if a munitions scouting ability on the soviet mortar is unfair?

I mean... "Combat" "engineers" need something regardless of what happens to the mortar..

At the moment the soviet mortar gets only 1 or 2 shots at the target, after it fires its flare. Its rof is still the worst off the worst.
To do some substancial damage you need other arty or a second mortar to join in. An ost mortar has nearly the same impact of 2 soviet 82mm mortars. In nearly all situations.
The 6 men durability is balanced by the fact that ost has more potent grenades/ small arms plus team weapons/ non doc upgrades and on field healing. Wich soviets do not have.

Also Okw have non doc map hack and scouting at guns. They have the easist time to reinforce leigs at hqs on the front.
Ost pios have bigger sight range for free at vet0. Ost has spottings scopes doctrinaly.

So how is a 40 muni flare on the crappiest mortar OP when taking this into consideration?
To me its easy, it is not OP.

Counter battery actualy can kill others mortars somewhat reliably. Unlike a single flare.

Will they ever ban this not so sane balance designer.

I just want to remind axis won 5 out 5 in the last week's 2v2 tournament. Regardless who played it.

I'd rather give flares to all factions. USF especially when I play them I find their tools very powerful, but I can never get vision on hunkered down opponets to pick away with my jackson or find a soft flanking spot. M20 doesn't cut it lategame due to fragility and I'm not too fond of sending in a rifleman to be shot at by an MG42.

Major recon?

Major recon?

No. Hes an FRP and thats it. Ill be DAMNED if it gets used for anything other then that.

Major recon?

thats good for flank checking yes. I forgot about that while writing, but it doesn't help too well with jackson taking pick shots. It last for 10 seconds, which is 1-2 shots for the jackson. Yes you can attack ground, but that runs into issues with more frequent misses and gets exponentially worse with elevation changes. I still select rifle co sometimes just for those riflemen flares when I'm running 1-2 jacksons. They're nearly untouchable with proper flare coverage.

thats good for flank checking yes. I forgot about that while writing, but it doesn't help too well with jackson taking pick shots. It last for 10 seconds, which is 1-2 shots for the jackson. Yes you can attack ground, but that runs into issues with more frequent misses and gets exponentially worse with elevation changes. I still select rifle co sometimes just for those riflemen flares when I'm running 1-2 jacksons. They're nearly untouchable with proper flare coverage.

the major's recon is awful for artillery spotting. The thunderbolt zoom over head in a single pass and reveal a location for maybe about 5 seconds.

the flare stay up in the air and there's nothing you can do to bring it down.

the major's recon is awful for artillery spotting. The thunderbolt zoom over head in a single pass and reveal a location for maybe about 5 seconds.

the flare stay up in the air and there's nothing you can do to bring it down.

True. But on the flip side the major recon gives to a glimpse of most to all the map (gets pretty solid with vet) whereas the flare needs to be in range and is only in the area you set it.

Different types of recon.

HOWEVER if all mortars are losing their offensive distinctions then the soviet mortar will undoubtedly be king with a 6 man crew and vet 0 flares so something will have to give.

True. But on the flip side the major recon gives to a glimpse of most to all the map (gets pretty solid with vet) whereas the flare needs to be in range and is only in the area you set it.

Different types of recon.

HOWEVER if all mortars are losing their offensive distinctions then the soviet mortar will undoubtedly be king with a 6 man crew and vet 0 flares so something will have to give.

the flare have the same range as the regular barrage, 80m and reveal a 30m radius area. That's really good enough where the range is not an issue.

the area stay revealed for 35~40 second. That's long enough for any artillery barrage to finish. The only defense is to vacant the 30meter radius area and to let the soviet have the ground.

playercard pls

where is urs? LUL



Also on another hand, what Katitof said.

Also the mortar is week and dies real fast if u flank it once so well

the flare have the same range as the regular barrage, 80m and reveal a 30m radius area. That's really good enough where the range is not an issue.

the area stay revealed for 35~40 second. That's long enough for any artillery barrage to finish. The only defense is to vacant the 30meter radius area and to let the soviet have the ground.

Mortar still has to get into range, its not a 1 click anywhere and done like all other recon abilities.

Im not saying its a bad ability , im saying its more involved than other recon abilities.

They made flares vet 0 to make the least attractive mortar attractive, if they are all going to be the same it might as well be locked behind vet again.
Moving flares to vet has been done before, sure on the sniper it was a garbage change but much like the homogenization of the mortars thats what happens when the balance team takes an uninspired and lazy approach to the game...

Mortar still has to get into range, its not a 1 click anywhere and done like all other recon abilities.

Im not saying its a bad ability , im saying its more involved than other recon abilities.

They made flares vet 0 to make the least attractive mortar attractive, if they are all going to be the same it might as well be locked behind vet again.
Moving flares to vet has been done before, sure on the sniper it was a garbage change but much like the homogenization of the mortars thats what happens when the balance team takes an uninspired and lazy approach to the game...

how often is the mortar going to retreat? especially a mortar crew with 6 men? The soviet sniper also take some time to get to vet 1 as well.

lastly the mortar flare is also cheaper than the sniper flare (40) and the major recon (50).

Why should pioneers get extra vision if a munitions scouting ability on the soviet mortar is unfair?

the pioneer get 42 sight, compared to the usual 35.

scouting unit like the m20 get 50 by default and 60 vetted.

they are still no where as convenient or powerful as the flare. It's an extremely safe scouting ability and also one of the most effective.

Scouting unit at least require you to get within weapon range and stay there.

At the moment the soviet mortar gets only 1 or 2 shots at the target, after it fires its flare. Its rof is still the worst off the worst.
To do some substancial damage you need other arty or a second mortar to join in. An ost mortar has nearly the same impact of 2 soviet 82mm mortars. In nearly all situations.
The 6 men durability is balanced by the fact that ost has more potent grenades/ small arms plus team weapons/ non doc upgrades and on field healing. Wich soviets do not have.

Also Okw have non doc map hack and scouting at guns. They have the easist time to reinforce leigs at hqs on the front.
Ost pios have bigger sight range for free at vet0. Ost has spottings scopes doctrinaly.

So how is a 40 muni flare on the crappiest mortar OP when taking this into consideration?
To me its easy, it is not OP.

Counter battery actualy can kill others mortars somewhat reliably. Unlike a single flare.

units revealed by infrared still count as being in FOW, hence artillery will still suffer the usual 25% scatter penalty. Flare remove FOW and hence improve the effectiveness of artillery. Beside, the Leig lost its 100m range a while back.

the mortar flare is also 30 mu, not 40 mu. The one on the soviet is 40 mu and have a shorter range at 50m.

An ost mortar has nearly the same impact of 2 soviet 82mm mortars. In nearly all situations.

81mm: 4 sec reload + 4 wind down/up + .5 fire aim time = 8.5
barrage: 0 reload + 4 w d/u + .125 FAT = 4.125


82mm: 7.5 sec reload + 3.125 windw down/up + .5 fire aim time = 11.125
barrage: 3.575 reload + 3.125 windw down/up + .125 FAT = 6.825

11.125/ 8.5 = 1.30

the 82mm auto fire is 30% slower and the barrage fire is 70% slower.

people way overblown the ROF advantage ost mortar have over the sov.