Guards need a adjustment

OK!

So all say that test szenario is not good.

So:
Tell us which is the szenario where you can show the performanche from guards, where we can see how good they are.
What are the condition...tell it pls with all details.

Here's a clip from a game I had yesterday.

It took the same time for 2 Guards squads to take out half of Pz.IV HP as for AT gun to take out other half.
So, basically, one Guards squad's PTRSes have same DPS as half of AT gun.

Panther was under Mark Target effect btw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvXZVs6fMo0&list=PLxxavoPctaemGiyGXgpOcrKsbUFI5K9qT

Here's a clip from a game I had yesterday.

It took the same time for 2 Guards squads to take out half of Pz.IV HP as for AT gun to take out other half.
So, basically, one Guards squad's PTRSes have same DPS as half of AT gun.

Panther was under Mark Target effect btw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvXZVs6fMo0&list=PLxxavoPctaemGiyGXgpOcrKsbUFI5K9qT

this is what i mean...guards kill you 2 tanks and kill in the next battle some grens and obers...they are to much from both..AI and AT!

this is what i mean...guards kill you 2 tanks and kill in the next battle some grens and obers...they are to much from both..AI and AT!

What next battle? All I see in that video is two tanks being taken down by two Guard squads, a UKF 6-pounder AT gun and Mark Target.

szenario:
you must fight serveral infantery and armor. you can choose only one infantery unit type. you have 800 mp and 200muni. you must have on all units on the same upgradestatus and weapons. Which will u choose to get the best effectivnes?

this is what i mean...guards kill you 2 tanks and kill in the next battle some grens and obers...they are to much from both..AI and AT!

Since you are blind like a hen, there was ATG up north unloading at these tanks as well.
In case you didn't seen it, he did mentioned it in his post, which you have chosen to completely ignore.

How about you stop picking exclusively parts that suit your argument only and look at the broader whole for once?

Since you are blind like a hen, there was ATG up north unloading at these tanks as well.
In case you didn't seen it, he did mentioned it in his post, which you have chosen to completely ignore.

How about you stop picking exclusively parts that suit your argument only and look at the broader whole for once?

i seen it. Never said that they detroyed it alone...only said that they perform like panzergrens vs armor and like obers vs infantery. Sov could deal in mostly games if the build only guards as fighting infantery...and get the same results like someone build a combine army from grens and panzergrens...

i seen it. Never said that they detroyed it alone...only said that they perform like panzergrens vs armor and like obers vs infantery. Sov could deal in mostly games if the build only guards as fighting infantery...and get the same results like someone build a combine army from grens and panzergrens...

You for real?

this is what i mean...guards kill you 2 tanks and kill in the next battle some grens and obers...they are to much from both..AI and AT!

And guards do not deal that well with suppression and bleed due to high pop cap.
Spam is effective only vs noobs who never micro.

You for real?



And guards do not deal that well with suppression and bleed due to high pop cap.
Spam is effective only vs noobs who never micro.

maybe reading in context, you know something like this?
> this answer from me wasn´t 100% regarded to the vid...thats why i said:"...kill in the next battle some grens and obers...they are to much from both..AI and AT!"

you learned to read whole sentences...and to understand them?

You for real?



And guards do not deal that well with suppression and bleed due to high pop cap.
Spam is effective only vs noobs who never micro.

and..i forget that in the actually game status obers and panzergrens have low popcap and are really efftiv under supression...right?

Panther:
-Mark vehicle (35% cause i don't see any remark on changelog and from a quick look at attribs it says 1.35 abilities>soviet>modal_ability>commander_ability>mark_vehicle)
-6pounder AT gun
-2 Guards (button)
-Centaur (not sure how much chip dmg it made if any at all)
-A single indirect fire shell

AT gun: not sure if the first hit was with mark vehicle, but you can see the ability to proc before the tank getting hit. 4 shots were made, a single bounce.

160 * 1.35 = 216 >> 216 * 3 = 648

So the Guards only had to do 152dmg to kill the PV

Guards: first of all, notice how the bot model takes ages to fire either to bug or reload. One of the squads is using button to keep the tank on range of all units.

While they initially approach from behind, the PV moves to be on the side as most of the models with PTRS are mostly on the top.

20dmg/40dmg (27/54 with mark) is the output they can do per shot between either deflection and penetration. It didn't require a single of them to pen to deal that remaining dmg. 27*7 = 189dmg


PIV:
-6pounder
-2 Guards

Guards: since it freezes, the camera angle and movement is hard to see but i guess between 9/11 shots. Pen is 85/100 at that range and PIV armor is 180/90. Hitting from side makes more likely for rear shots.
At 10 shots, it needed 6 shots to pen and 4 to bounce. If more than 10 shots were fired, you needed less shots to pen.

At the end of the day, that tank died, because the user forgot to use smoke canisters. As the 2nd tank procs it and escapes easily after been buttoned as well.

and..i forget that in the actually game status obers and panzergrens have low popcap and are really efftiv under supression...right?

See, guards are nowhere near as effective as pshreck PGs in AT or LMG34 obers in AI.

Your "tests" of 50 guards killing disabled, stationary KT vs 50 pgs doing the same to... KT... (because allied KT is apparently a thing in your head) do not really prove anything, because that is not realistic situation.

Guards DPS is very speread out and they have nowhere near model sniping potential as Obers, Obers also have 2 types of nades, both are more powerful then what guards have and they can suppress squad, doctrinally they can have 3rd AI type of grenade and weapons that ignore partially cover bonuses.

Its hilarious how you are capable of comparing exclusively "critical mass" situation.
Do you play exclusively low ranked 4v4?

According to Relic Guards are OP and that is why they are getting nerfed.

Their getting less deflection more pop and more CP.

"We are lowering the PTRS’ deflection damage to reduce their impact against heavy armoured vehicles when attacking from the front."
(something I did pointed out when the deflection damage was increased)

"Guards are having their timing adjusted through a CP increase due to their over effectiveness against a wide range of targets at the time they hit the field; their population is also being increased to match other elite squads."

According to Relic Guards are OP and that is why they are getting nerfed.

Their getting less deflection more pop and more CP.

"We are lowering the PTRS’ deflection damage to reduce their impact against heavy armoured vehicles when attacking from the front."

"Guards are having their timing adjusted through a CP increase due to their over effectiveness against a wide range of targets at the time they hit the field; their population is also being increased to match other elite squads."

Thank you for repeating patch notes for 70th time.
No one is arguing that current nerfs are unjust or should not be applied.
There is only one delusional person thinking guards are king tigers of infantry who keeps using critical mass examples to back his claim.

If you believe Guards are this indomitable tactical panacea why not simply play Soviet?

I recommend you do that anyway. It's the best way to learn a faction's limitations.

According to Relic Guards are OP and that is why they are getting nerfed.

Their getting less deflection more pop and more CP.

"We are lowering the PTRS’ deflection damage to reduce their impact against heavy armoured vehicles when attacking from the front."
(something I did pointed out when the deflection damage was increased)

"Guards are having their timing adjusted through a CP increase due to their over effectiveness against a wide range of targets at the time they hit the field; their population is also being increased to match other elite squads."

Classic Relic's Triple Nerf (tm)

Sadly, but we all know how it usually ends.

Thank you for repeating patch notes for 70th time.
No one is arguing that current nerfs are unjust or should not be applied.
There is only one delusional person thinking guards are king tigers of infantry who keeps using critical mass examples to back his claim.

Dear Katitof you are welcomed. I knew you would appreciate it since you seem to have a hard time finding patch notes and you end up writing silly things like that gammon bombs cost 70 mu or that Penal Satchels are more powerful than gammon bombs when information like that can be easily found in the patch notes.

Classic Relic's Triple Nerf (tm)

Sadly, but we all know how it usually ends.

It shouldn’t be too bad and returns Guard to a soft vehicle counter against LVs also 3 CP will be better timing then how early they come out now

According to Relic Guards are OP and that is why they are getting nerfed.

Their getting less deflection more pop and more CP.

"We are lowering the PTRS’ deflection damage to reduce their impact against heavy armoured vehicles when attacking from the front."
(something I did pointed out when the deflection damage was increased)

"Guards are having their timing adjusted through a CP increase due to their over effectiveness against a wide range of targets at the time they hit the field; their population is also being increased to match other elite squads."

actually reading into the changes show the biggest nerf is to their pricing, and the damage on deflection.

grinding down heavily armored tank through deflection damage is nonesense, it's just logical to nerf it.

however, no nerf was done to their performance aside from that the PTRS change. Their anti-infantry capability remain completely untouched.

this mean that relic felt confident about their current performance, not if their pop efficiency. The guard will still give units like the ober trouble after the patch, but the soviet will have to play a higher premium.

is guard OP by the loose definition? yes, but more accurately a matter of pop efficiency. Guards being able to beat ober has been deem not an issue itself.

grinding down heavily armored tank through deflection damage is nonesense

Not particularly. Its ptrs is still an AT asset, the only hand AT the soviet can get at that and they lack burst damage so deflection damage makes sense really. Ptrs is the Molotov of AT weapons- it WILL hurt you, but its strictly area denial. If you sit there and get plinked away you clearly deserve to lose the unit.

That said toning it down slightly might be a good move, we will see.