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russian armor

Future balance tweaks for usf

20 Apr 2018, 02:00 AM
#1
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

One thing that annoys me when I play usf is how bad their stock anti-camping weapons perform. There are some mortar changes being tested out on the new balance preview, but I was thinking more about the scott. The scott performs the same role as the he sherman, they both are good vs moving or stationary infantry. Maybe it is time to rework the scott to be less effective vs infantry squads but more devastating vs bunkers, static weapons, or campers. One way of doing this is to to make auto-fire less effective and make the barrage more powerful. As of now, it takes little skill to use.
I think some changes ,to make it more barrage focused, will be healthy for both sides.

Until then, Priest everyday! :)

I guess we may add some more tweaks/suggestions for usf balance to keep the title relevant, I should have made this into a m8a1 scott thread.
25 Apr 2018, 19:22 PM
#2
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 868 | Subs: 5


Essentially, that the Sprint Patch should also apply to the Scott?
That's a great idea. The Scott is, essentially, a Mortar on light armor.
26 Apr 2018, 09:21 AM
#3
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

Scott is your ultimate smoke dispenser :)
28 Apr 2018, 15:07 PM
#4
avatar of CobaltX105

Posts: 87

I've always preferred the Sherman as smoke dispenser, since it's beefier than the scott and can at least ward off other armor.

Anyway, can we finally have Pathfinders infiltrate in this patch? IRL the Pathfinders were paradropped ahead of the main force, but they lack the animation for falling ingame so this would be the closest thing.

They also completely lack shock value, what with only semi-auto rifles and no grenades. So they won't be OP against like, anything.

But they would be fun use as recon behind the line, and could cut off caps to enemy territory.
28 Apr 2018, 17:31 PM
#5
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 495 | Subs: 1

I quite like the idea of infiltration pathfinders. They’re a cool unit that is underutilized, but not underpowered. They are also one of the few combat units that should use M1 Carbines instead of M1 Garands, plus the two M1C sniper rifles. See my thread and poll about the M1 carbine and you’ll see what I would like to see in the SBP for US.

+1 to seeing a Scott rework. I’d personally like to see all US tiers more or less reworked to have a balance between AT, AI and IDF. Currently each tier more or less already does this, but Maj tier is the best at everything with really no reason to go Capt unless you really need AT but don’t have the fuel for an all around better M36 Jackson.

Maybe add the M10 to Captain tier with some nerfs to range and some other changes to give the Captain more flexibility, while still letting the Maj be better at everything.
28 Apr 2018, 20:39 PM
#6
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 464

yes how about we make scott useless and let everyone go for shemran can you let USF alone the are balanced if you want scott nerf then nerf OST panzer warfer is to OP they got their mortar
29 Apr 2018, 01:53 AM
#7
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

One thing that annoys me when I play usf is how bad their stock anti-camping weapons perform. There are some mortar changes being tested out on the new balance preview, but I was thinking more about the scott. The scott performs the same role as the he sherman, they both are good vs moving or stationary infantry. Maybe it is time to rework the scott to be less effective vs infantry squads but more devastating vs bunkers, static weapons, or campers. One way of doing this is to to make auto-fire less effective and make the barrage more powerful. As of now, it takes little skill to use.
I think some changes ,to make it more barrage focused, will be healthy for both sides.

Until then, Priest everyday! :)

I guess we may add some more tweaks/suggestions for usf balance to keep the title relevant, I should have made this into a m8a1 scott thread.


the major artillery is the USF's analog of the rocket artillery for the okw/wehr/sov, but several limitation restrict its usefulness.

Major artillery range should be increased to 80m (with vet bonus), and be callable into FOW with scatter penalty.

And while the major artillery is a munition ability, the USF can compensate by building munition cache. Two munition cache cost around the same as a katyusha anyway.
29 Apr 2018, 02:35 AM
#8
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

i would love for major arty to get a buff. its a shame that the major basicly operates as a mobile retreat point and little else
29 Apr 2018, 11:01 AM
#9
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



the major artillery is the USF's analog of the rocket artillery for the okw/wehr/sov, but several limitation restrict its usefulness.

Major artillery range should be increased to 80m (with vet bonus), and be callable into FOW with scatter penalty.

And while the major artillery is a munition ability, the USF can compensate by building munition cache. Two munition cache cost around the same as a katyusha anyway.


Or keep the same range but remove red smoke warning, and add a sound warning.
29 Apr 2018, 13:44 PM
#10
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Major artillery is simply OP. It is dirty cheap can be combined with recon flight and one can even sacrifices the major to use and buy a new one if he need him.

It has little counter other then relocating when possible. It does not need to be buffed.
29 Apr 2018, 17:09 PM
#11
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2018, 11:01 AMEsxile


Or keep the same range but remove red smoke warning, and add a sound warning.


that would work

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2018, 13:44 PMVipper
Major artillery is simply OP. It is dirty cheap can be combined with recon flight and one can even sacrifices the major to use and buy a new one if he need him.

It has little counter other then relocating when possible. It does not need to be buffed.

1) Part of the assumption it being able to fire into FOW would mean the plane recon and it would no longer syngerize.

2) the major's price is its own problem, and 150 mp is really too cheap

3) Major artillery require the major, and munition. The major is a relatively fragile unit with only three member. If you see the major suspiciously close to the front line make him your priority. If the player is using the Artillery liberally he will need the munition to keep it going.
29 Apr 2018, 18:17 PM
#12
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Lol major artillery OP... Players have plainty of time to remove their units from the area before the first shell land.
No smoke and adding a sound effect would make it more like regular onfield artillery.
29 Apr 2018, 19:53 PM
#13
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2018, 18:17 PMEsxile
Lol major artillery OP... Players have plainty of time to remove their units from the area before the first shell land.
No smoke and adding a sound effect would make it more like regular onfield artillery.

Being on recieving end of Stuka Dive Bomb have taught me that abilites with wipe potential without red smoke is complete bullshit and their existence makes this game only worse.

BUT!

I'm always up for making other side taste their own medicine, so I agree with your suggestion about removing red smoke and making this game shittier. The ends justifies the means.
29 Apr 2018, 21:15 PM
#14
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1


Being on recieving end of Stuka Dive Bomb have taught me that abilites with wipe potential without red smoke is complete bullshit and their existence makes this game only worse.

BUT!

I'm always up for making other side taste their own medicine, so I agree with your suggestion about removing red smoke and making this game shittier. The ends justifies the means.


Lieutenant arty barrage has nothing to do with Stuka dive bomb :help: I had more in head something to match any other on field rocket artillery...
30 Apr 2018, 00:44 AM
#15
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930


Being on recieving end of Stuka Dive Bomb have taught me that abilites with wipe potential without red smoke is complete bullshit and their existence makes this game only worse.

BUT!

I'm always up for making other side taste their own medicine, so I agree with your suggestion about removing red smoke and making this game shittier. The ends justifies the means.


stuka bomb is op because it's a front loaded ability. The deadliest part of a barrage/offmap is the early part.

artillery barrage that basically trickle in shells over time is different. It give the enemy time to react and retreat.

the Major's artillery have a significant delay, with six shells coming down sequentially 2 seconds apart. It's far over powered.


the Panzerwerfer and stuka are both devastating because they work on the alpha strike principle.
30 Apr 2018, 02:28 AM
#16
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Agreed. The arty lacks alpha strike, and even if it didnt an arty audio cue would be enough since its ~on map arty more or less.
30 Apr 2018, 02:52 AM
#17
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

Honestly the Sherman needs a small buff as it stands now that the P4 has had such a drastic increase in performance.

I don't however find USF indirect fire lacking at close range *due to the mortar barrage being rly good* but I would say the long range pak howi is pretty bad due to its cool-down, scatter, 3 man crew, and the fact that most of its medium to close range is worthless.


Another thing that rly bugs me about usf is the core Riflemen squad's 5th man seeming to drop off a drop of a hat meaning you lose DPS while closing in on long range units like volks.

It makes it extremely stressful and hard to get around the range limitations of USF early on or until you get bars but its such a long stretch that you endlessly fight and up hill battle due to the manpower drain.
30 Apr 2018, 04:45 AM
#18
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Apr 2018, 02:52 AMMittens
Honestly the Sherman needs a small buff as it stands now that the P4 has had such a drastic increase in performance.


iirc the sherman AP is best in class so theres that at least. the p4 has been underperforming since WFA came out so if its finally top dog i think thats probably fine
30 Apr 2018, 05:34 AM
#19
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 495 | Subs: 1

Check out the thread on reworking the pack howi into a traditional onmap artillery piece, except slightly less powerful per shot and with less range compared to stationary guns, but retaining mobility. It would distinguish it from the mortars and give USF a more dedicated artillery unit that fills the barrage only, area denial IDF. Yes, Major artillery is sort of that right now, but it requires a lot of munitions if you use it a lot and is very easily dodged. This lets the Major still have his recon and artillery abilities remain useful and unchanged, but give USF a way to tech specifically for artillery like all other factions can.

It’s not homongeous, it’s different in execution but has a similar end state.
30 Apr 2018, 05:39 AM
#20
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Apr 2018, 02:52 AMMittens
Honestly the Sherman needs a small buff as it stands now that the P4 has had such a drastic increase in performance.

I don't however find USF indirect fire lacking at close range *due to the mortar barrage being rly good* but I would say the long range pak howi is pretty bad due to its cool-down, scatter, 3 man crew, and the fact that most of its medium to close range is worthless.


Another thing that rly bugs me about usf is the core Riflemen squad's 5th man seeming to drop off a drop of a hat meaning you lose DPS while closing in on long range units like volks.

It makes it extremely stressful and hard to get around the range limitations of USF early on or until you get bars but its such a long stretch that you endlessly fight and up hill battle due to the manpower drain.




iirc the sherman AP is best in class so theres that at least. the p4 has been underperforming since WFA came out so if its finally top dog i think thats probably fine


https://www.coh2.org/topic/70398/the-state-of-panzer4

TLDR:

sherman: hp to 800, armor to 180, pen to 90/110/130,

the problem with sherman isn't its firepower. It is it lack of survivability.

Check out the thread on reworking the pack howi into a traditional onmap artillery piece, except slightly less powerful per shot and with less range compared to stationary guns, but retaining mobility. It would distinguish it from the mortars and give USF a more dedicated artillery unit that fills the barrage only, area denial IDF. Yes, Major artillery is sort of that right now, but it requires a lot of munitions if you use it a lot and is very easily dodged. This lets the Major still have his recon and artillery abilities remain useful and unchanged, but give USF a way to tech specifically for artillery like all other factions can.

It’s not homongeous, it’s different in execution but has a similar end state.


both the major and pack howitzer could use a change really.


The core USF currently have four separate piece of artillery (mortar, pack, m8, major) but are still losing the artillery war to the okw and ost.

The original three should have been improved upon instead of shoehorning an early game mortar. The USF didn't need an early game mortar, they needed better late game artillery.

the US 81mm is just redundant, adding it was a serious mistake.

Rifleman with smoke was enough to give the USF one of the best early game. By giving the usf the tool to break wehr that early it reinforce the idea that USF is a purely early game faction.

After all the business with the USF mortar was said and done, the USF is still stuck with their situation of having probably the 2nd worst late game core arty. It wasn't balancing, it was spinning in circle aimlessly.
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