Spring Update - Balance thread

I have this great insane solution. Show Spoiler

But you can answer in future. At the moment sov sniper is a frontline unit u can't kill without a hail to the rng mortar god.

I hope you do realise that with single model at 82hp it is going to be a frontline unit you can't kill even with rng blessing for your mortars, just like it is in case of ostheer sniper right now.

Except the only counters to snipers at high level has always been another sniper.

Sov sniper at 2 man is RNG infested frustration that dies to mortar but survives infantry. It should be the other way around which is going to be achieved with the upcoming change.

Except when T1 on Soviet didn't had AT on the form of penals, and OH sniper was wrecking soviet snipers because 222 cost was brought down so you couldn't realistically use M3 to oppose it. Even if 222 was crap as AI due to bugs, 444 made it more than enough against T1 and T70, even when it was OP.

Although this was quite in the past (OCF/2016?), it just shows that "imbalance" on soviet snipers is only due to how well you can support it (Guards) and how well counters units are during the meta.


Best timeline: they found ways to nerf Soviet sniper assymetrically
Acceptable timeline: since they are ubber buffing counters, no sniper sees play.
Darkest timeline: making 1man 82HP with mobile cloak and quasi OH RoF, makes Soviet sniper even worst and we enter the era of sniper spam wars.

Snipers aren't the only units whose performance relies entirely on how well they are supported. They're just the only units that haven't been nerfed because of how their support amplifies their performance.

I hope you do realise that with single model at 82hp it is going to be a frontline unit you can't kill even with rng blessing for your mortars, just like it is in case of ostheer sniper right now.

Right now the only way to counter soviet sniper is luck, thats a bad deal. After the patch i can kill him with cs, thats for me a better deal.

Right now the only way to counter soviet sniper is luck, thats a bad deal. After the patch i can kill him with cs, thats for me a better deal.

Oh yea, that is sooo going to help OKW.

Oh yea, that is sooo going to help OKW.

now:
sov sniper is in the current spot not to handle for ost or okw

after patch:
ost can handle sov sniper now, okw continuing problems

ur logic:
okw can't do it, ost shouldn't be able either? ^^

my logic:
as 2v2 player it will definitively help my okw mate

now:
sov sniper is in the current spot not to handle for ost or okw

after patch:
ost can handle sov sniper now, okw continuing problems

ur logic:
okw can't do it, ost shouldn't be able either? ^^

my logic:
as 2v2 player it will definitively help my okw mate

You want my "logic", then read up earlier in the thread.

There are better ways to balance this out without spamming ctrl+c ctrl+v on every single inconvenient unit.

I mean if ONLY okw had some sort of light car in t0 that could, like many other light cars be buffed in a way that imroves their performance against sniper. But simce there ISNT a 210mp light car that cam still cap if the enemy doesnt go sniper that could be buffed in the EXACT same way that other cars have been buffed to combat snipers i guess we will have to settle for copy and pasting and nerfing the ost sniper into the soviet faction.

It really is too bad that there is no light car option...

I mean if ONLY okw had some sort of light car in t0 that could, like many other light cars be buffed in a way that imroves their performance against sniper. But simce there ISNT a 210mp light car that cam still cap if the enemy doesnt go sniper that could be buffed in the EXACT same way that other cars have been buffed to combat snipers i guess we will have to settle for copy and pasting and nerfing the ost sniper into the soviet faction.

It really is too bad that there is no light car option...

OKW isn't allowed to have a viable early vehicle. It'd break the universe, apparently, to allow the Kubel to actually win engagements against singular infantry units in the same way the British early vehicle does. Nope, Axis players can't have powerful units that require serious counterplay efforts, that'd be too OP.

OKW isn't allowed to have a viable early vehicle. It'd break the universe, apparently, to allow the Kubel to actually win engagements against singular infantry units in the same way the British early vehicle does. Nope, Axis players can't have powerful units that require serious counterplay efforts, that'd be too OP.

Makes me wonder if you have ever heard about luchs, JT or OKW Panther.

None of those come in the early game though.

And luchs and JT were both nerfed. One specifically because it could be rushed.

But sure, the OKW panther is a great option for early game field presence. EZ gaem.

I referred his last line, which was generalization as you have not put emphasis on early game there.

Oh and there is also flak HT, which is incredibly strong at the moment and will not go down to a single ATG, unless you forget how to micro.

I referred your last line, which was generalization as you have not put emphasis on early game there.

Save it for the steam forums, emotional over the top strawmans are pathetic.

Except when T1 on Soviet didn't had AT on the form of penals, and OH sniper was wrecking soviet snipers because 222 cost was brought down so you couldn't realistically use M3 to oppose it. Even if 222 was crap as AI due to bugs, 444 made it more than enough against T1 and T70, even when it was OP.

Usually your posts are contructive and well thought out, but this part i simply cannot follow. Would you kindly take another look at it?

Although this was quite in the past (OCF/2016?), it just shows that "imbalance" on soviet snipers is only due to how well you can support it (Guards) and how well counters units are during the meta.

Support always existed in the form of AT nades on cons, mines to lay and other counters such as they were buffed or nerfed.

Killing (and thereby countering the sniper) has always been a thing of another sniper.

Best timeline: they found ways to nerf Soviet sniper assymetrically
Acceptable timeline: since they are ubber buffing counters, no sniper sees play.
Darkest timeline: making 1man 82HP with mobile cloak and quasi OH RoF, makes Soviet sniper even worst and we enter the era of sniper spam wars.

This does not follow, Is the sov sniper buffed or nerfed in total? since apperently we're getting sniper wars (why?) but somehow the sov sniper is worse off?

As a question to you: Why is it nice to have a sniper that dies to RNG shells but harder to countersnipe?
That's just double the frustration, none of the skill.

You should ignore everything elchino says. The fool abuses his moderator powers. I posted about ghosted sandbags in bugs 3 years ago and he deleted it. And just a few months ago, Relic finally changed it.

He's just an enabler for Relic mistakes of which the double Soviet Sniper is a big glaring game imbalance and has been for a long time ... just like ghosted sandbags were.

Go ahead ... abuse your moderator powers again. Keep helping Relic double down on design and balance mistakes and watch the community keep plateauing because people with a brain leave the game.

Valid concerns or not, you couldn't do a better job of discredting my/our position on the sniper issue.
I kindly suggest you keep stuff like this to PM.

QQ

Damn some people are salty. You can take this to PM if you want but since you bring it here, i'll let other form an opinion by themselves.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/53824/why-is-a-longstanding-bug-like-sandbag-ghosting-in-the-game/page/1#post_id544335
OP post.

Relic is simply incompetent.

My post
Show Spoiler

Usually your posts are contructive and well thought out, but this part i simply cannot follow. Would you kindly take another look at it?
Support always existed in the form of AT nades on cons, mines to lay and other counters such as they were buffed or nerfed.
Killing (and thereby countering the sniper) has always been a thing of another sniper.
This does not follow, Is the sov sniper buffed or nerfed in total? since apperently we're getting sniper wars (why?) but somehow the sov sniper is worse off?
As a question to you: Why is it nice to have a sniper that dies to RNG shells but harder to countersnipe?
That's just double the frustration, none of the skill.

1- My bad if i didn't explained myself. During 2016/OCF, prior to Penal PTRS madness, OH sniper was wrecking and T1 saw absolutely no play.

Luvnest words from that time.

Actually I kinda wanna disagree. I tried T1 with a sniper to countersnipe devm's sniper in OCF. The Soviet sniper team is extremely clumsy. The moment it steps out of cover it decloaks meanwhile its Ostheer counterpart can walk from one side of the map to another while beeing camouflaged. This means that the Soviet sniper is only able to countersnipe once you pushed your opponent back and set up an ambush. Which is rarely happening since you are short on infantry (maybe 2,3 cons against MG42, 3 Grens, Sniper) and give up a lot of early map control which you would have with a 3 Con T2 opening. Plus the danger of a 222 forces you to either pick a doctrine for guards or T2 for AT gun. If you just go AT nades you will be pushed back eventually.

I really wish that Soviet sniper was just one guy with decent camouflage for manouvering. Plus the spotter is super awkward since he shoots sometimes by himself, revealing the other sniper too. Good players can deal with Soviet sniper quite well to be honest.

PTRS Penals means Guards commander are no longer a must, while the cost adjustment and MG target table nerf against snipers made 222 unreliable. Guards saw "no play" during prior patch, while the current state shows how volatile they are for making them underused or overused.

2- Countering soviet snipers hasn't always been a matter of been able to countersnipe or not. Disengage early on, map pressure forcing retreats and stalling for other upgrades or units (lights) has always been a choice.

As i said before, this is kind of a burf (buff + nerf) which i can't foresee where it is gonna land us in the meta. But it just pushes the meta into sniper war, if snipers are viable. More or less in a simil situation with OH vs UKF.

3- Having the MOST reliable way of killing a sniper been RNG shells is bad. But i don't think the focus should be countersniping. I believe there are ways of nerfing and adjusting soviets snipers so it's more painful to be losing models while still retaining the 2 man squad.

For ex:
-Increase reinforce cost to +120mp
-Make the spotter weapon be transferable, so once a model dies, it can't countersnipe back.
-IIRC its 2x64HP (128hp without counting RA). You could make the spotter 82HP and the sniper model 24/48HP and nerf their RA so if any unit sees them, it's basically guaranteed to lose the sniper model. Indirect will be better at bleeding it, while not necessarily wiping the squad.
-I don't know how the priority system works in the game, so i'm not sure if you can alter it based on models. But you could always adjust it so the sniper model is slightly forward in the formation.


If after the target table MG buffs, snipers retreat nerf and the changes to 222, soviet sniper remains viable, i think it's overall a buff to the unit. Been able to shoot faster and cloak on the move is huge. At that point it is gonna be a matter of whether Cons AT nade, PTRS penals or the later Guards, can hold the line for them or not.

Mortars countering snipers IS bad, thats why i suggested giving the sniper model 82hp and the spotter 46 health. Same EHP as now. But more likley to bleed if flanked while unable to be wiped by RNG.
That coupled with cars buffed as a proper sniper counter would be more than enough without sucking out flavour and trying to balance a whole new design (better VS os but worse than ost for the same price? Fighting against weapons like lmg42 and lmg34s with massivly concentrated DPS)

The mortar change is really gonna hurt new players in the game.
I like it!