SU-76

Even if it wasn't, it still is supposed to be effective and reliable vs medium armor and it needs to be more effective then 85 against it, otherwise it would be pointless to field again, as it was in the past.

Same with StuG vs panther.

Then Su-85 needs to become less effective vs mediums same as the Panther and Stug.

Once more SU-76 is OP, its far penetration is too high, its barrage is too spam-able and XP value too low.

SU-85 already is not prefered way to fight meds, so that already happened.

SU-85 already is not prefered way to fight meds, so that already happened.

Just because it the most cost efficient way it does not mean it is bad at it. Compared to the performance of the SU-85 and the cost differences, Panther should it mediums for breakfast.

But this thread is about Su-76 that is Op.

If you're using 200+ fuel multiple units on a singular MG, there better be nothing left out of it.

King Tiger cries in the corner

if the stug and su76 is nerfed again why the hell would anyone build it. we'd be back to the same crappy meme td's and then thers guna be another topic saying how UP these units and the circle jerk will continue.

For the su76, just increase the barrage cost or just replace it something else (no AI) so it becomes a pure TD and increase its vet requirements, finished.

Honestly, anymore nerfs on the stug would render it useless

Exactly. I finally found a reasonable comment.

Following your logic JT is better now with less DPS but with an artillery ability becouse its not specialised AT. I'll suprise you: that was a huge nerf.

Surely, the barrage should not be free on su-76. But nerfing its range or penetration will go a long way in rendering the unit useless.

btw. JT has an ability that is pretty much what su-76 barrage is, just with cost, more range and better shells.

With 5-6 Pak 40, you can insta boom a T34/76.
Pak 40 should be nerfed. Used right they are devastating.

ie: SU-76 snowballing.

Sigh.

With 5-6 Pak 40, you can insta boom a T34/76.
Pak 40 should be nerfed. Used right they are devastating.

ie: SU-76 snowballing.

Sigh.

pak cant do anything vs infantery, is not superfast and mobil...

Then Su-85 needs to become less effective vs mediums same as the Panther and Stug.

Once more SU-76 is OP, its far penetration is too high, its barrage is too spam-able and XP value too low.

============
- Did you just say Panther and StuG need to be less effective vs mediums?

Just because it the most cost efficient way it does not mean it is bad at it. Compared to the performance of the SU-85 and the cost differences, Panther should it mediums for breakfast.

But this thread is about Su-76 that is Op.

============
StuG is OP.
- Should all allied units be nerfed hard and all Axis units be buffed hard?

- Zis-3 and SU76, well, most allied units, seem to be a little more polyvalent, but
at the cost of being weaker at certain things while axis seem to be overperforming specialists.

Zis-3 is weaker than Pak 40 (vs stronger tanks!) but has a bit of arty thrown in.
SU-76 is weaker than StuG (vs stronger tanks!) but has a bit of arty thrown in.

Axis seem to want said allied units to lose their side abilities and just become
pure at their task, but without said ability being improved.

SU76 : Lose barrage, lose pen, lose ROF. Why build it?
Unit is then deleted, or becomes copy paste of the StuG

Same discussion with sniper.
Soviet sniper is OP! / But it's weaker than Wehr sniper.
Don't care! Make it 1 man.

Soviet sniper becomes 1 man, and gains increased ROP. Now kills 50% faster.
German : No, make it easier to kill, but keep it's earlier low ROF too (for same price)

Same with conscripts
6x men (240) vs 4x men (240). Unfair! Want 5x men squads!
German gets 5x men squad but nerfed (no! Want 5x men squads, but as good as before, same price)
(also, soviet needs 4x men squads)
Conscripts become 4x men squads, but are buffed to be like Grenadier.
German : No! Conscripts need to be 4 men, but individualy the same as when 6x men squads.

Dev : Do you want homogeneity ?
German : No, I just want to win every fight. I want allied with zero advantages.
Make allied MG unable to suppress.
Make allied snipers fragile and unable to kill anything.
Make allied mortars useless.
Make allied tanks weak and without AOE, or HE, or AP, or range, or pen.
Give Axis self-repair. Take it from allied tanks. Make German tanks able to decrew.
Make German units low pop so they can be spammed. Quality AND Quantity. But cheap
like allied units, but with Axis power.
I want every single match to just automatically be a german victory. At the start.
I want an I-win-button. I want any ability of the allies to win, or even damage any axis units
removed.
German : I want the game to be realistic. Minus AT planes, AT assets, Fireflies, Jacksons, SU85.
German tanks should 1 shot anything allied have, and themselves always be immune to anything.
German Panther should have 100% accuracy, even when mobile, and should 1 shot allied TDs and be
immune to them.
German : Also please remove any Allied heavies.
German : Also buff Tiger so it insta-wins.

Dev : *Hangs himself*

============
- Did you just say Panther and StuG need to be less effective vs mediums?

Depends, medium tanks should be an investment worth the cost, currently more TDs and infantry are built because many TDs are OP.

If you want to understand what, I wrote read it all the posts.

pak cant do anything vs infantery, is not superfast and mobil...

And you know what is?
Puma!

Can you guess what 5 pumas do to literally ANY allied armor, IS-2 included?

Everything spammed will feel imba, its called critical mass.

Depends, medium tanks should be an investment worth the cost, currently more TDs and infantry are built because many TDs are OP.

If you to understand what I wrote read it all the posts.

Your sentence makes no sense? :/

What's funny is to see the new Oshteer meta falling into heavy T1, 4Gren, sometime 5 with 1 or 2 HMG42 to support them. But that's not spam and blob, that's heavy T1 strategy

Your sentence makes no sense? :/

I was replaying to the argument that the SU-85/SU-76 relationship is similar to the Stug/Panther relationship.

It is not, Su-85 is more cost efficient than Panther vs mediums (and heavies).

The fact remains SU-76 is OP.

What's funny is to see the new Oshteer meta falling into heavy T1, 4Gren, sometime 5 with 1 or 2 HMG42 to support them. But that's not spam and blob, that's heavy T1 strategy

Although true, would you like to see snipers built? or 4x 42s? That's like saying USF blobs rifles because they build AT LEAST 3 every game. It's not that they're building it its that they're building something when they have no other options.

I was replaying to the argument that the SU-85/SU-76 relationship is similar to the Stug/Panther relationship.

It is not, Su-85 is more cost efficient than Panther vs mediums (and heavies).

The fact remains SU-76 is OP.

======================
Argument irrelevant

Because Panther is more of a tank than a TD. It's almost a tiger with better armor, better
range, and less AI (And more speed!)

The StuIIIG is way cheaper than the SU85 and it rapes heavies easily, as well as having higher
ROF. Not only does StuG cost less, pop less.

StuG critical mass is 2 STUG.
SU76 critical mass is 3-4. So you can't claim Soviet OP, when German equivalent is both
cheaper and much more efficient (and tougher, more armor, and more health).

StuIIIG can win vs SU85, as well.

Although true, would you like to see snipers built? or 4x 42s? That's like saying USF blobs rifles because they build AT LEAST 3 every game. It's not that they're building it its that they're building something when they have no other options.

Smoke was removed from Rifles.
Mortar were nerfed into the ground, then added to USF to make useless unit made somehow essential.
SMoke was given to Rear Echelon to make USF make more.

It's interesting when previous USF mortar was OP, germans screamed nerf.
Mortar was nerfed and USF went back to Rifle Spam (since they'd stopped spending on Mortar)
to which Axis yelled OP!

... We nerf the unit you complain about into the ground, and, yet, somehow, that is even more OP ?

There is no end to this

Reply to Esxile
What's funny is to see the new Oshteer meta falling into heavy T1, 4Gren, sometime 5 with 1 or 2 HMG42 to
support them. But that's not spam and blob, that's heavy T1 strategy

More than 1 of any allied unit is a spam.
Axis equivalent is not. It's funny.

====================
=====================

How can the game be balanced so that everyone is happy?
Is it even possible?

And you know what is?
Puma!

Can you guess what 5 pumas do to literally ANY allied armor, IS-2 included?

Everything spammed will feel imba, its called critical mass.

- Nerf Puma?