Mark Target OP
18 Aug 2013, 00:32 AM
#1
Posts: 331
Just putting it out there, it costs 80 muni and basically offers and I win button for any vehicles, especially when combined with a conscript nade... and this is on the back ground of ost 80 muni cost of a recon plane a role while mark target also incidentally provides. Either make recon plane for ost cost 40 muni or double the cost of mark target so It cant just be spammed all the time. Man a upgun for scout car is 60 muni and its usless, cant have a 80 muni kill all vehicle button.
18 Aug 2013, 00:56 AM
#2
Posts: 44
No...just no.
It is an ability that costs 80 munitions and REQUIRES combined arms to actually inflict any damage. Typically, it is Guards buttoning at tank, marking it, and an SU-85 destroying it. Combined arms should defeat your tank in that case. Or you can just pop-smoke and run away.
You can't spam it, since the cooldown is 60s (I believe, if not longer). If it seems like it is being spammed, then probably multiple enemy commanders had chosen a doctrine with Mark Target.
But Guard Motor tactics does tend to float a lot of munitions, as there aren't any call-in artillery or bombing options, whereas Mechanized Support tactics has a bombing run call-in and tends to burn through more munitions.
The plane that flies around has a very limited LOS, basically enough to get LOS on the marked vehicle as intended. It is not equivalent to an actual Recon Run.
You could make the same type of complaint about Strafe planes, too.
It is an ability that costs 80 munitions and REQUIRES combined arms to actually inflict any damage. Typically, it is Guards buttoning at tank, marking it, and an SU-85 destroying it. Combined arms should defeat your tank in that case. Or you can just pop-smoke and run away.
You can't spam it, since the cooldown is 60s (I believe, if not longer). If it seems like it is being spammed, then probably multiple enemy commanders had chosen a doctrine with Mark Target.
But Guard Motor tactics does tend to float a lot of munitions, as there aren't any call-in artillery or bombing options, whereas Mechanized Support tactics has a bombing run call-in and tends to burn through more munitions.
The plane that flies around has a very limited LOS, basically enough to get LOS on the marked vehicle as intended. It is not equivalent to an actual Recon Run.
You could make the same type of complaint about Strafe planes, too.
18 Aug 2013, 01:00 AM
#3
Posts: 99
"Just pop smoke"?
Sure, as soon German Armour gets smoke without a doctrine^^
Sure, as soon German Armour gets smoke without a doctrine^^
18 Aug 2013, 01:02 AM
#4
Posts: 44
"Just pop smoke"?
Sure, as soon German Armour gets smoke without a doctrine^^
Mark Target....is also from a doctrine ^^
18 Aug 2013, 01:04 AM
#5
Posts: 331
No...just no.
It is an ability that costs 80 munitions and REQUIRES combined arms to actually inflict any damage. Typically, it is Guards buttoning at tank, marking it, and an SU-85 destroying it. Combined arms should defeat your tank in that case. Or you can just pop-smoke and run away.
You can't spam it, since the cooldown is 60s (I believe, if not longer). If it seems like it is being spammed, then probably multiple enemy commanders had chosen a doctrine with Mark Target. But Guard Motor tactics does tend to float a lot of munitions, as there aren't any call-in artillery or bombing options.
The plane that flies around has a very limited LOS, basically enough to get LOS on the marked vehicle as intended. It is not equivalent to an actual Recon Run.
You could make the same type of complaint about Strafe planes, too.
I dont see it as a balanced option in my opinion, 60 second cool down is a lot less then the rebuild time of a tank, its completely nullifies any Armour in the game. You say it takes a "combined arms approach" but ill phrase it in a different way, you have an army as the soviet, a firefight begins, you pop mark target and basically with the units in the area you kill the tank 4 times faster than normal.
Since soviet army already has some pretty powerful anti tank units, such as SU85, buttoning on guards or even the 6 man zis gun, its pretty much a no brainer, its cheap enough to spam all game every 1 minute, so every engagement it can and will be used and throws out the balance of the game.
You may be right about the limited LOS bus you still get some, and just to get LOS as ost you are paying 80 muni for a super heavy muni based army ( if you want to have a chance at winning at all)
18 Aug 2013, 01:13 AM
#6
2 
Posts: 2181
Smoke doesn't interrupt "mark target" and I think it's fair for 80 munis. I do think the effect is very strong
There is a small bug with it; shooting down the plane doesn't stop the marking. Im not sure if it sill gets spotted in the fog when the plane is down
There is a small bug with it; shooting down the plane doesn't stop the marking. Im not sure if it sill gets spotted in the fog when the plane is down
18 Aug 2013, 01:13 AM
#7
Posts: 44
I dont see it as a balanced option in my opinion, 60 second cool down is a lot less then the rebuild time of a tank, its completely nullifies any Armour in the game. You say it takes a "combined arms approach" but ill phrase it in a different way, you have an army as the soviet, a firefight begins, you pop mark target and basically with the units in the area you kill the tank 4 times faster than normal.
But that's also a situation where you need to adapt. If they only marked you, then run away until the ability timer is over. It might not be fun, but its better than a dead tank. If they buttoned and marked you, then 140 munitions is a fairly significant investment and steps should have been taken to avoid getting your tank into that situation.
Popping smoke would nullify both and allow you to attempt to escape. A preemptive strafing run would prevent Guards from buttoning you. A Recon Run would let you see what they have set-up, and know not to run your tank smack into it. Or any number of other variables and tactics that could play out.
18 Aug 2013, 01:15 AM
#8
Posts: 44
Smoke doesn't interrupt "mark target" and I think it's fair for 80 munis. I do think the effect is very strong
There is a small bug with it; shooting down the plane doesn't stop the marking. Im not sure if it sill gets spotted in the fog when the plane is down
I know it doesn't interrupt the actual marked target, but it breaks the button and LOS to any AT weapons which may be trying to fire at the tank.
18 Aug 2013, 01:19 AM
#9
Posts: 420
Mark target makes your tank taking 1-2 hits (depends on the tank) less... so OP.
BTW does it interrupt the ability when you shoot down the plane?
BTW does it interrupt the ability when you shoot down the plane?
I will simply lol at anyone expecting such a change to a 2 year old general use infantry.
Equally possible are pershing for USF, IS-3 for soviets or ober nerf for OKW.
18 Aug 2013, 01:21 AM
#10
Posts: 954
little bit off-topic, the stupid vehicle detection ability is also costs you 60 munition, what's the point for that sh*t?
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
18 Aug 2013, 01:53 AM
#11
Posts: 85
little bit off-topic, the stupid vehicle detection ability is also costs you 60 munition, what's the point for that sh*t?
I agree, that thing is useless, especially since Pz Ivs come out in 7 mins anyway
18 Aug 2013, 02:04 AM
#12
Posts: 480
Eh, having Mark Target around radically increases the viability of all things which aren't SU-85s, which is a good thing.
18 Aug 2013, 06:27 AM
#13
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedToo powerful. Nerf it.
18 Aug 2013, 15:25 PM
#14
Posts: 88
play some soviet before saying bullshit plz, u obviously dont understand how the ability works
"nullify any german armour" ROFL
"nullify any german armour" ROFL
18 Aug 2013, 16:08 PM
#15
Posts: 627
Eh, having Mark Target around radically increases the viability of all things which aren't SU-85s, which is a good thing.
And then it's fucking ridiculous when you have SU-85s out.
What you pick? Something viable or something overpowered?
Mark Target is fine except for the fact it lasts ridiculously long. The duration should be reduced.
18 Aug 2013, 16:17 PM
#16
Posts: 219
Pop smoke, use blitz to GTFO. Happens very often... I don't think it should be nerfed. Plus, chasing down a german tank can often be a fatal mistake with SU 85's.
18 Aug 2013, 16:28 PM
#17
Posts: 480
And then it's fucking ridiculous when you have SU-85s out.
What you pick? Something viable or something overpowered?
Mark Target is fine except for the fact it lasts ridiculously long. The duration should be reduced.
SU-85s are overpowered without it, tbh. Removing it will punish a lot of legit strategies (whether that's SU-76, T-34 + T-70, guards, ZIS guns...) while not really hurting the SU-85s very much. We'll see how it works with the SU-85 after the SU-85 changes that are somewhere around the corner.
Maybe the duration could take a cut.
18 Aug 2013, 16:55 PM
#18
Posts: 176
What's bullshit and wrong is the ability remains when the plane is shot down!
18 Aug 2013, 17:56 PM
#19
4 
Posts: 813 | Subs: 1
If I remember correctly there wasnt any plane in earlier stages (but my memory might be flawed). The addition of the plane seems like a small afterthought just to give LOS since once the vehicle is out of LOS, the mark is usless. I think its a good thing that the mark stays there. I think it should stay as is. As Blovski wrote, it makes other strats more viable. Also, it is doctrinal, maybe a no-brainer to choose, but still a choice. And not all players go for it.
If you find your opponent go for alot of AT, use infantry or some sort of arty. German armor isnt the answer to everything.
If you find your opponent go for alot of AT, use infantry or some sort of arty. German armor isnt the answer to everything.
18 Aug 2013, 18:40 PM
#20
Posts: 176
German armour is required because soviets have exellent anti infantry capabilities even within there own armour. T70/T34/T34-85/SU-85/SU-76 all kill infantry to varying degrees.
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