Mark Target OP

What a convincing argument you make.
And its isnt just "now". This thread was made already in August.

Jesus christ, kid...

I've told you many times I'm not a kid and I would like to see you take your appeal for politeness on the forum to your heart as well.

On the topic:

Why would you even consider Mark Target being OP? It costs 80 munition so no spamming, can be used only on a single target, targeted unit got a clear visual indicator so you can see it's under its effect and always retreat the unit. It doesn't last forever and its doctrinal. I understand someones Tiger got heavy beating but that's not the reason nor the evidence that this ability is overpowered.

I'm not sure if shooting down the plane that comes with Mark Target actually cancels the ability. Anecdotal, I think I saw the Mark Target icon persist over a marked unit after its plane was shot down. This indicates that the plane merely provides sight of the marked vehicle. I am probably wrong though.

I mainly think that's something like Mark Target is impossible to fully balance with all the variables in CoH, especially as you get into team games.

I do not think raising its cost is the best way to go about, it's already costly, and as I said already, it's wildly inconsistent in use.

I keep pointing this out, but DoW2 had the exact same ability for one of the leaders for Space Marines. Relic deemed it too powerful then, and made it into an ability used on one of your own troops, which then increased its damage output.

I'm not saying this is how it should go, but I am pointing out that there's a precedent for this kind of ability being a problem that required fixing.

As far as I can tell, the plane is independant of the Dmg buff.
It provides LoS, but if destroyed, just stops the tracking, and doesnt affect the debuff.

I completely disagree that its use is in anyway " inconsistent". Its an almost automatic engagement winner vs armor, even and especially when you yourself are fielding an inferior AT force.

As Sov, may favorite Commander has this, and I leverage it in both T3 and T4 builds to absolutely facepunch Ost armor equivalents with T34s and especially SU85s. Good thing its CP3, or I would abuse it mercilessly in conjunction with Guard vs Light Vehicles.

I can only surmise, that anyone who doesnt recognise this, simply isnt using it properly and often enough.

Its even 60s in duration. Meaning even if Armor retreats, there is ample time to hunt it down, and you even KNOW where it is, to make that even easier as well as having automatic LoS to use range to its fullest, though usuakly popping Scope on SU85 is enougb to get off the 1-2 remaining shots required to kill it.

Very powerful also in conjunction with Button, where you can force the Armor to take all that +50% dmg right in the balls.

Mark target becomes really usefull onlyu in conjunction with su85s and its doctrinal and usually accompanied by guards . If you see guards early without ppshs you should get some smoke . and btw if your opponent gets his su85 before or at the same time as your p4 he already has the hardcounter he should win in an an engagement . Not to mention the OP or much better stuff one passes up to use this ability namely ill2 skillstrafe , the early ability that essentially tells you what your opponent is doing , kv8s , kv1s , ppsh conscripts etc , etc

Can we please draw a line between learn to play issues and balance issues? I really don't think Mark Target falls into the first category. It's a strong ability yes, but it's easily avoidable and reasonably priced. You can say this about every second ability in this game. Shall we now refer to all of them as overpowered?

Can we please draw a line between learn to play issues and balance issues? I really don't think Mark Target falls into the first category. It's a strong ability yes, but it's easily avoidable and reasonably priced. You can say this about every second ability in this game. Shall we now refer to all of them as overpowered?

Its ironic that you want to divide discussion between l2p and balance issues, but then you immediately afterwards make a L2P based argument yourself, namely that "its easily avoidable".

A) There is nothing easy to avoid about a point and click ability. Simply activate and click the armor.
B) As to avoiding the actual effects of the ability, there is nothing "easy" about that either. It forces that armor unit iout of the engagement and off the field into hiding for the full 60s of the abilities duration.
C) As if that wasnt "non easy" enough, you cant even effectively hide that armor for the duration, because its being tracked from the air by its own dedicated Recon plane.

The net result is that for 80 Muni, you effectively win that engagement vs armor, either by outright dmging it for +50% if it is stupid enough not to retreat, or by it simply having to retreat and hide for the full 60s., giving Sov free reign to advance. Not that you can even hide it, because you know where it is for that full 60s.

Imo this is definately in the top 5 most powerful Sov Commander abilities.
Really, a player with this ability should be using it everytime it is off cooldown.
Its that good.

As to what kind of adjustment it needs, I see many options such as an increase to 100 Muni, or reducing its dursation, or changing it to a Penetration buff, or removing the Recon element (which also incidentally does general Recon for you too, whereas Recon alone already costs 80 Muni normally).

If you see a big red marking target above one of your tanks simply retreat it. It's you who have control over it, not the enemy. Retreat it and 80 munition is wasted it's how easy is to avoid this thing. Unless you've already over extended yourself and drove your tank into the enemy lines without any support, then you're screwed.
Of course it's a tank out of the battle but you can always retreat and come back later.

Let's not ask for complete redesign of abilities only because someone doesn't like them or struggle with or against them.

80 Munis wasted to force an armor unit off the field for 60s and knowing where it is as well as receiving general Recon data?

How is that a waste, lol?

Lets not deny the over effetiveness of an ability, just because someone isnt using it to its full effect and likes their priviledge so much they cant see what it does to the opponent.

You only can see targeted unit so general recon data doesn't apply here and if you retreat affected unit till mark target ends so no damage is done then 80 munition your opponent invested in this ability is wasted.

I didn't say mark target is not effective I just said it's not OP as claimed by some people here. As a loose comparison here you wouldn't call rifle nade OP even if it has the ability to kill some unit members or wipe out whole squads as I wouldn't call marke target OP even if there is potential to cause some heavy damage.
You have means to neglect the ability and its effects. It's all about skillful play.

Its too good for cost.

Wins armor engagements at best even with inferior force, and forces a 60s retreat/hide at worst during which Sov is free to advance, as well as general Recon, all for 80 Munis.

Sorry, but nothing you have said even remotely addresses or negates any of these.

And from what I can see you haven't use this ability even once because what you are saying is exaggeration. You're trying to make this ability look more potent than it really is thus justifying imaginary nerf. We can apply the same rule to every other anti tank ability that cripples tanks in any way.
Following this logic you can claim AT nade or Panzerfaust is OP because it only costs so much munition and can cripple my tanks making them vulnerable to enemy fire.

And once again it's not general recon. You only see targeted unit and nothing else. You get the same effect with ZiS Vet1 ability.

And from what I can see you haven't had this ability used even once against you because what you are saying is exaggeration. You're trying to make this ability look less potent than it really is thus justifying its over effectiveness.

How tremendously ironic and hypocritical that 1 post after you say not to mix L2P issues into balance, you AGAIN, now for the SECOND TIME, do it yourself.

I dont even know what to say to you trying to compare ATNades or Faust even remotely to this. How is that even remotely logical or even rational?

And once again IT IS general recon. ZiS Vet 1 is NOTHING like this, for so many reasons that are blatantly obvious.

Last 2v2 game I had it used against my Veted PIV. I retreated the unit to the second line of attack which allowed my Stug to have free shots as they were chasing the Panzer so it actually was helpful to me as they were to focused on that PIV.

• can be countered by ostwind or the plentiful AA germans have
  R. killing the plane only stops the vision on the tank.
  
• needs another unit for it to do something.
  
• can only be used on a single target.
  
• targeted unit has a clear visual indicator.
  
• if its 1 unit it still can be killed before it does it damage (t34) or outmaneuvered (SU and At guns)
  
• for it to work with great success needs munitions no AA, and a minimum of 2 units.
  

so far 1 argument down.

counter arguments

• gives vision of the unit
  R. so does recon run and it cost less and covers a greater area
  

This forum has not polls?

I find that discussing these topics are really pointless if only 2 or 3 people actually think that Mark Target is OP.

There should be a way to really see if a unit or ability is controversial among the community, and polls would be a good start.

I don't think it's OP. Good ability yes, OP not really. If any changes were made I think an increase to 100 munitions would be fine, Sov. are floating in Munis anyways.

Only problem with it is the ability continues even after plane is shot down, other than that it is fine. Germans have far better AT, this ability only attempts to level the playing field. Just because something is good doesn't make it OP, if you want to nerf a Soviet ability then nerf IL2 strafe run because it is currently broke as hell.

Its too good for cost.

Wins armor engagements at best even with inferior force, and forces a 60s retreat/hide at worst during which Sov is free to advance, as well as general Recon, all for 80 Munis.

Sorry, but nothing you have said even remotely addresses or negates any of these.

Only affects one tank. vCoH field repair affected all your tanks. M10 train + repair was far more potent than mark target yet very few people complained about it being OP.

Soviets are harder to learn. Many noob play as wermacht and want easy win. And they cry very loud. Spent your time LTP. You have many strongest abilites then MT, learn and use them. Try watch some replays.

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