Churchill tank is the most OP unit ingame

Since some people seem to have extremely hard time grasping context and need everything laid down directly to even begin to comprehend something a clarification:

-The context was about churchills -DAMAGE- which confused people would notice themselves, if they had attention span long enough to read the post quoted in the post they got so worked up with

-With above in mind and with context of the post, aka firepower, being already established, can you claim with a straight face that churchill boasts a great firepower? Or will you get off the blue pill and acknowledge that it is a heavy tank with medium tanks firepower, therefore, still in the context of firepower, it will struggle to penetrate aka damage certain high armor units, resulting in a very long time to kill and no way to shorten it up because of very poor mobility.

The Churchill has the same Damage as PzIV and even higher penetration is most ranges.

The Churchill will "struggle to penetrate aka damage" against high armor unit like the KT the same way a PzIV will "struggle to penetrate aka damage" against high armor units like the IS-2.

Churchill struggles against OKW P4 and vet2 ost P4.

It will not however struggle vs the OKW PzIV as the it was originally claimed, it will win in most cases.
The claim is simply false and misleading and will remain so no matter how much "smoke and mirrors" are used.

I suggest to simply move on and stop trying to prove a false claim as correct.

(edited straggle since some people struggle with issues)

Remeber:

Katitof NEVER Played Brits! He cant even imagine how good/ bad brits units are.

So stop discuss with him about brits units and play.


To topic: Church is the most efficent tank in game when look on its pricetag and stats. Combine it with a TD...and you will struggle hard vs this.

The Churchill will "straggle to penetrate aka damage" against high armor unit like the KT the same way a PzIV will "straggle to penetrate aka damage" against high armor units like the IS-2.

It will not however straggle vs the OKW PzIV as the it was originally claimed, it will win in most cases.

KT and IS-2 do not have the same amor value for F/R. An IS-2 will not struggle (you mean struggle, and not straggle, I suppose, both struggle and straggle mean COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS) against a PzIV, either on stats or in-game. Not sure why you bring IS-2 into this conversation, it is misleading.

Edit: Or did you mean the Churchill? Your writing is ambiguous. If you meant the Churchill you're just repeating what you said in an earlier post and synonymous with what Katitof has said. Or do you want to compare IS2 as most OP unit ingame now? I hope you don't go back to edit your posts to create even more confusion..

The Churchill has the same Damage as PzIV and even higher penetration is most ranges.

The Churchill will "straggle to penetrate aka damage" against high armor unit like the KT the same way a PzIV will "straggle to penetrate aka damage" against high armor units like the IS-2.

Except IS-2 will not be bouncing off of P4 50% of the time.
Do you start to see the point or more illumination is needed?

It will not however straggle vs the OKW PzIV as the it was originally claimed, it will win in most cases.
The claim is simply false and misleading and will remain so no matter how much "smoke and mirrors" are used.

No one ever said it'll lose.
It will struggle(the word is struggle btw) against OKW P4 not like you struggle to grasp that simple argument, where it has completely no chance.

Struggle means its hard for it to beat it, not impossible.
In the context it means long and the context is very clear to everyone who have read quoted post, response and whole sentence, not fixate himself on a singular word one doesn't seem to understand anyway.
If it was impossible, I would say impossible.
Struggle is synnonymous to hard and opposite to easy.

I suggest to simply move on and stop trying to prove a false claim as correct.

The very moment you'll stop pretending there is something which isn't and falsely responding to it.
I hope with all my heart that with guidelines above on the meaning of a word you completely missed now you actually might get the idea.

You focus on trees so much that you can't see a forest in front of you.

Remeber:

Katitof NEVER Played Brits! He cant even imagine how good/ bad brits units are.

So stop discuss with him about brits units and play.


To topic: Church is the most efficent tank in game when look on its pricetag and stats. Combine it with a TD...and you will struggle hard vs this.

So we can now, by your very own logic, disregard every single thing you say that isn't directly about ost?
That'll save us so much time.

So we can now, by your very own logic, disregard every single thing you say that isn't directly about ost?
That'll save us so much time.

compared to you...i played every faction. not tousands of games...but..hey...i made my own experience with all of them...unlike u.

(edited straggle since some people struggle with issues)

Thanks for clarifying your post - however, as mentioned earlier, I don't believe you should to offend others (through editing your post hours later) if they point out the countless misguidance and misunderstanding in your post because of your writing style. I recommend to be humble and accept your errors that you were wrong on the subject.

...
Struggle means its hard for it to beat it, not impossible.
....

Churchill will beat PzIV in most cases without any real effort, it has a good chance to win even flanked. It has been even tested by mr.matrix300

The claim is simply wrong. PLS move on.

Did a quick test:

Churchill vs OKW P4 on medium range. Result: OKW Panzer 4 is dead and Churchill has 65% of his HP left. Conclusion: Churchill struggles against OKW P4

Feel free to contact your own tests and pls provide your result and video.

Katitof says it struggles, Vipper says it straggles struggles, but at the same time, Vipper insists that Katitof is wrong about the struggle. Somebody apparently doesn't get it, all just to detract from the topic for just basic schematics (whilst being wrong and back-editing posts after them being quoted to appear correct).

What post says:

Struggle means its hard for it to beat it, not impossible.
In the context it means long(time to kill) and the context is very clear to everyone who have read quoted post, response and whole sentence, not fixate himself on a singular word one doesn't seem to understand anyway.

What Vipper sees:

Struggle means its hard for it to beat it, not impossible.

What Katitof said that Vipper instantly proves to be correct:

You focus on trees so much that you can't see a forest in front of you.

If you want to argue someones post, make sure you are capable of understanding what is said there, not cherry picking stuff you want to attack, completely disregarding what was said prior or after, picking a single line completely out of any context, which proves you full of s***.

Churchill does not lose to P4 - fact.
Churchill does not have as claimed by certain axis only individual - overwhelming firepower - fact.
Churchills gun does not reliably penetrates vet2 ost P4 and OKW P4 - fact.
Churchill takes long to kill, therefore struggles against said P4s - fact.

You are ignoring actual argument to attack semantics and half sentences picked completely out of context of the whole discussion, again - fact.

compared to you...i played every faction. not tousands of games...but..hey...i made my own experience with all of them...unlike u.

In reference to recent Shoutbox activities, and to quote another moderator on the subject:

Experience does no matter at all. One can spend their life to do things the wrong way without anyone noticing it.

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The original post:

DPS against what also matters.

Churchill struggles against OKW P4 and vet2 ost P4.
It can't go up against anything bigger frontally and I don't need to say that won't be flanking anything with it.

Nothing about long "time to kill" or anything else.

The claim simple clear and wrong. Churchill does NOT struggles against OKW P4 it can win easily. Again simply move.

Is Vipper aware that he/she is taking one sentence completely cherry-picked out of context from a post from days past whilst completely ignoring and disregarding new posts and new pages about the subject? It feels disrespectful that Vipper wants argue one schematic about things that were demonstrated and discussed that he/she was wrong since... Troll-bait much?

Lmao I dont know what yall discusing about but the thing is, churchill is a good example of how a unit of high tiers should look like. Powerful, fits its role and has good utility. Everything after paying its price on teching and spending time building it (yes, this is an indirect against the remaining call ins). Churchill doesnt need to be changed. All the other units of similar tiers, should aim to be like the churchill

The amount of troll bait in this thread.

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Churchills are fine as long as you get long range AT capabilities for them or go Jadgpanzer/Pak40s.

There's also something called the Pak43 you can make.

Lmao I dont know what yall discusing

What do you expect from the avatars of argumentation that pollute this and every other thread?

KT and IS-2 do not have the same amor value.

Yes they do

Yes they do

KT has different back armour values to IS2 from what I recall from the stats (non-mod), but I really don't want to get into semantics..

Conclusion: Buff IS-2

the conclusion is that something needs to be done about the Churchill as it is to much of a jack of all trades.

1. Its armour is super high
2. It's hp is rediculous
3. It is great vs infantry
4. It is great vs tanks
5. It's cheap as peanuts for its performance.
6. It has smoke so even after surviving 12 shots it can just disappear.
7. It has no limit and can be built unlimited times.

Its literally a medium sized king tiger with smoke.

Im with Luciano here the Churchill is probably the best balanced heavy tank in the game.

Its very powerful but also has glaring weaknesses, such as being ludicrously slow, having a mediocre main gun and being the "t4" tech for UKF when compared to other heavys. TDs and at guns basically make the churchill a vet bank and snares or mines make it almost immobile. Yet if used correctly is very powerful and a rewarding unit.

Also why are people comparing the p4s to churchills? If the churchill couldnt beat a p4 with relative ease then the unit would be fucking awful.

One thing I say could be nerfed its rear armor.