no Counter for OKW and Wehrmacht Tank destroyers

Mostly now I only find them a problem in 2v2 on certain maps and certain combinations that can be op. Maps like minsk pocket and rails and metals, rhoad to karhov where its often kind of a middle vp shoot out with not great options to flank and or are easily mined.

Some op combos like cmd panther with a team mate who goes jagd or ele. Or jagd or ele with a stuka loiter team mate (both pretty much counter any diving options, stuka loiter for obvious reasons and command panther because of its vision and flares providing site to see for the super tds, help keep them out of trouble and stopping any medium divers.) Volks having snares and also the large amount of most axis call in infantry all having snares dosent help either (understood why okw call in inf did before volks got snares, now makes no sense, never understood why soo many ost call in inf get snares)

If they can eventually get a superTD plus brumbar combo thats pretty fukin op as well. Cant use your tanks to fight brumbar (super td over watching it) and brumbar counters at guns and handheld at and because of armor and health pool its resistant to at guns (directly counters its counter) and TDs bouncing off its armor.

Jagd is worse of the 2 because of its range, dont understand why its still able to out range brits 17pdr, as at least 17pdr can counter an ele with good positioning and team combination.

Even with nerfs I think they could have a bit less armor, especially jagd.

the counter is art. and at guns and inf, he cant cap cause u art the points and he can't push cause atguns will kill his TD as they can't kill atgun

this +1000000000000000000 and if it doesn't work, then like some famous polish man would say: L2P-ISSUE

If you are matched against such an AT force, just spam infantry he cant kill those with his elephant and such

this +1000000000000000000 and if it doesn't work, then like some famous polish man would say: L2P-ISSUE

If you are matched against such an AT force, just spam infantry he cant kill those with his elephant and such

The problem with JT and Elephant only exists in 3vs3 and 4vs4, especially in some maps. The combination of JT/Elephant and Brummbar is extremely nasty versus reactional infantry builds. Backed up by some Shreks and 1-2 AT Guns or other tanks versus allied flanking tanks of course. I would really like to see a raise of population of all super heavy tanks, so that you get more countering troops for the same population. A single JT in a central key point of a 4vs4 really puts the pressure on the allied team without hampering the versatility or striking power of the rest of the german forces.

The problem of a artillery battle is that Wehrmacht has a lot of useful commanders that can dislodge/kill an stationary artillery piece with an offmap in addition while there are way less useful ones on allied side. I wouldn't count on allies winning the artillery battle. Priest is a mobile alternative but costs a lot more fuel, british artillery commander is still too bad to use.

The problem of a artillery battle is that Wehrmacht has a lot of useful commanders that can dislodge/kill an stationary artillery piece with an offmap in addition while there are way less useful ones on allied side. I wouldn't count on allies winning the artillery battle. Priest is a mobile alternative but costs a lot more fuel, british artillery commander is still too bad to use.

i find kat and calliope way better than stationary art and more pop efficent, sexton and priest are better at attaking their stationary art and elefant/JT as they can pen and deal a lot of damage

i find kat and calliope way better than stationary art and more pop efficent, sexton and priest are better at attaking their stationary art and elefant/JT as they can pen and deal a lot of damage

Sexton is still crap, buried in a useless commander and no comparison to Priest damage and AOE that was lately buffed while Sexton got no love. Calliope is not meant to fight Jagdtiger or Elephant, but maybe it can help to dislodge its support and open a small window for a flank attack, maybe... Calliope is useless on the bigger maps to reach the stationary artillery way behind the front. Only Priest is a viable option, but you have to spend some more fuel than you would for stationary artillery and so you have less tanks. In addition you binding yourself to always playing that one commander and thats pretty boring. Its a general problem of allies that all the sweet artillery pieces (rocket artillery or self propelled artillery are locked behind a single commander, with the exception of Katiusha but that one is clearly inferior to other choices). So you have decide going for the super heavy tank or that artillery piece. OKW and Wehrmacht can have both because of non-doctrinal units fulfilling that role. This isn't that important in the small 1vs1 and 2vs2 games, because late game is pretty short there. But you really missing some tactical options in the long term 4vs4 games and thats a pity.

Arty commander is useless? In team games its solid. The val suck donkey dick by frontline wide flares is beyond strong, and with a price reduction the overwatch arty would be incredible.

Seriously, make the val ~ a stuart and swap its arty ability with recon and it would solve alot of problems (make it come earlier too obviously) and it give a light vehicle option that isnt the AEC.

Maybe give the sexton airbust with anvil or vet too to jaz it up

Sexton is still crap, buried in a useless commander and no comparison to Priest damage and AOE that was lately buffed while Sexton got no love. Calliope is not meant to fight Jagdtiger or Elephant, but maybe it can help to dislodge its support and open a small window for a flank attack, maybe... Calliope is useless on the bigger maps to reach the stationary artillery way behind the front. Only Priest is a viable option, but you have to spend some more fuel than you would for stationary artillery and so you have less tanks. In addition you binding yourself to always playing that one commander and thats pretty boring. Its a general problem of allies that all the sweet artillery pieces (rocket artillery or self propelled artillery are locked behind a single commander, with the exception of Katiusha but that one is clearly inferior to other choices). So you have decide going for the super heavy tank or that artillery piece. OKW and Wehrmacht can have both because of non-doctrinal units fulfilling that role. This isn't that important in the small 1vs1 and 2vs2 games, because late game is pretty short there. But you really missing some tactical options in the long term 4vs4 games and thats a pity.

on what basis is kat bad ?

on what basis is kat bad ?

While a katy can wipe just like any other rocket arty, its barrage is spread out over a longer period of time compared to other rocket arty, giving the enemy more time to retreat. Unless RNG favors you or you are close to the barrage target, the German player can afford to wait till after the first salvo before deciding if retreat is in order.

It isn't bad per say but it has a lot of negative aspects such as what I mentioned and having a larger hitbox than other rocket arty platforms. It doesn't even have a token defensive weapon unlike its German counterparts. Also, its special ability just gives even more time to react.

on what basis is kat bad ?

Lack of alpha strike.
First shot matters the most for all indirect weapon pieces with exception to some mortars.

Lack of alpha strike.
First shot matters the most for all indirect weapon pieces with exception to some mortars.

then why PW is never used and considered by the large majority of player bad ?

then why PW is never used and considered by the large majority of player bad ?

PW is in a bad Tier that isnt required by OST. Typically teching up to t4 and building t4 isnt worth getting a PW


Its also pretty meh since its barrage is just one large barrage that doesnt do the that much damage, the Katy provides good area denial to infantry while also being effective against static positions. The PW doesnt do either of these as effective as the Katy.

then why PW is never used and considered by the large majority of player bad ?

Its not used, because its in ost T4, which isn't exactly easy to get every single game.

Its considered bad by large majority of players, because large majority of players ARE bad and trying to use it at max range.

Arty commander is useless? In team games its solid. The val suck donkey dick by frontline wide flares is beyond strong, and with a price reduction the overwatch arty would be incredible.

Seriously, make the val ~ a stuart and swap its arty ability with recon and it would solve alot of problems (make it come earlier too obviously) and it give a light vehicle option that isnt the AEC.

Maybe give the sexton airbust with anvil or vet too to jaz it up

Priest: 180 Range, AOE near with 200 damage at range 2.0
Sexton: 135 Range, AOE near with 160 damage at range 1.5

2.0 radius nearly doubles the area that is hit with full damage and that will do the squad wipes, this is a huge difference. Range 180 to 135 is a huge difference too, especially when you want to shoot at that stationary howitzers build near base with 250 range. You won't reach them with a Sexton. All of that for the small difference of 30MP, 15 fuel and one population. It doesn't matter that the Sexton has a little bit faster shooting cycle, the Priest does the damage versus crippled tanks and the squad wipes. So just always go for the priest. Yes, the airburst option would make a Sexton more versatile without copying the Priest and would be a good move to make it unique and more useful in one go.

Second problem of the artillery commander is the Valentine, as you already stated. Comes way to late in that 3vs3 and 4vs4 because of ressource inflation. There are AT tanks around when it hits the battlefield so it has absolutely no AI shock value anymore and is hard to vet up. Artillery ability isn't that great, so its basically reduced to its map hack that OKW gets non-doctrinal with a smaller arc but a lot earlier and a lot cheaper (5 fuel to 80 fuel / 5 pop to 12 pop). Infrared truck is way better designed, Valentine just wastes it combat values if it is used as map hack only (and you want use it like that). It should be bind to tech and come when you either researched AEC or Bofors (or something like that).

The offmap flares are quite good in that large battles, the two offmap barrage abilities are just okay. So current performance of Sexton and Valentine ruin this commander for me.

Priest: 180 Range, AOE near with 200 damage at range 2.0
Sexton: 135 Range, AOE near with 160 damage at range 1.5

2.0 radius nearly doubles the area that is hit with full damage and that will do the squad wipes, this is a huge difference. Range 180 to 135 is a huge difference too, especially when you want to shoot at that stationary howitzers build near base with 250 range. You won't reach them with a Sexton. All of that for the small difference of 30MP, 15 fuel and one population. It doesn't matter that the Sexton has a little bit faster shooting cycle, the Priest does the damage versus crippled tanks and the squad wipes. So just always go for the priest. Yes, the airburst option would make a Sexton more versatile without copying the Priest and would be a good move to make it unique and more useful in one go.

Second problem of the artillery commander is the Valentine, as you already stated. Comes way to late in that 3vs3 and 4vs4 because of ressource inflation. There are AT tanks around when it hits the battlefield so it has absolutely no AI shock value anymore and is hard to vet up. Artillery ability isn't that great, so its basically reduced to its map hack that OKW gets non-doctrinal with a smaller arc but a lot earlier and a lot cheaper (5 fuel to 80 fuel / 5 pop to 12 pop). Infrared truck is way better designed, Valentine just wastes it combat values if it is used as map hack only (and you want use it like that). It should be bind to tech and come when you either researched AEC or Bofors (or something like that).

The offmap flares are quite good in that large battles, the two offmap barrage abilities are just okay. So current performance of Sexton and Valentine ruin this commander for me.

Hmm didnt realize the price was so close to the priest, more abilities might be good, a pop reduction im weary of because of arty meta to begin with but i think a val rework making victor target available without vet (arty officer doesnt require it) would really help, hell- make the sextons and base howitzers all fire with any arty abilities! Imagine the glory of base howitzers and a pair of sextons firing on a site all at once....

Its not a BAD commander, the ideas are there but the execution is just below imo.

But i think the Val is key here. It could tie it all together.

Hmm didnt realize the price was so close to the priest, more abilities might be good, a pop reduction im weary of because of arty meta to begin with but i think a val rework making victor target available without vet (arty officer doesnt require it) would really help, hell- make the sextons and base howitzers all fire with any arty abilities! Imagine the glory of base howitzers and a pair of sextons firing on a site all at once....

Its not a BAD commander, the ideas are there but the execution is just below imo.

But i think the Val is key here. It could tie it all together.

Yeah, totally agree!


Sorry for altering this thread into a discussion about allied artillery, but it happenend because the artillery pieces are in a key role of crippling and destroying those heavy german AT tanks.

then why PW is never used and considered by the large majority of player bad ?

WHAT? its is prolly the best rocket arty in the game (after walking stuka got small nerf) because it disengrates anything its on aoe that lands so fast many times retreating dosent save you. Even if you use a barrage up close to wipe one vet3 squad its already paying for itself. Never understood why both german get non doct BETTER rocket arty. werfer can single target wipe anything on the field at close distant almost guaranteed, stuka makes support weapons completely useless soon as it hits the field as well as does WAY too much damage to vehicles. Allied rocket arty only bleeds mp and mostly gibs support weapons because of there large area design and the way they deliver the rockets not all at once alpha strike like werfer. Its purely rng if they wipe a squad and that squad would have to be wounded or low hp.

To die it into the topic, theres a reason why at guns and infantry dont work to kill super tds, because even the one with super td can prolly afford to get one as well, or at least there teamate will.

WHAT? its is prolly the best rocket arty in the game (after walking stuka got small nerf) because it disengrates anything its on aoe that lands so fast many times retreating dosent save you. Even if you use a barrage up close to wipe one vet3 squad its already paying for itself. Never understood why both german get non doct BETTER rocket arty. werfer can single target wipe anything on the field at close distant almost guaranteed, stuka makes support weapons completely useless soon as it hits the field as well as does WAY too much damage to vehicles. Allied rocket arty only bleeds mp and mostly gibs support weapons because of there large area design and the way they deliver the rockets not all at once alpha strike like werfer. Its purely rng if they wipe a squad and that squad would have to be wounded or low hp.

To die it into the topic, theres a reason why at guns and infantry dont work to kill super tds, because even the one with super td can prolly afford to get one as well, or at least there teamate will.

Last time I watched ImperialDane stream, he was complaining because his first PW barrage usage only got 5 kills, he wasn't even using it a close range. Some people think a unit itself should do the job for yourself and instantly wipe anything your opponent have. Obviously they are also claiming it for balance sake.

lol PW is ONLY effective a short range and has to put itself at risk while, every other rocket arty are effective at all ranges, please the delusional here is ridiculous and its in clear need of some sort of buff

lol PW is ONLY effective a short range and has to put itself at risk while, every other rocket arty are effective at all ranges, please the delusional here is ridiculous and its in clear need of some sort of buff

You seem to be under some weird Impression that other artz pieces are somehow accurate on long range.

Let me burst that bubble of delusions and inform you that all other arty pieces are equally shit at max range and all mobile arty that can, ALWAYS SHOULD come as close as possible before unloading barrage, Katy being prime example here, where it wont even hit targetted sector if used from max range.

PW is great, what it doesn't wipe it also suppresses.