Is OKW dead? what's your opinion?

I like this guy

Isn't that an absolute in itself though?
DUN DUN DUN


OKW is not dead - Especially not in 2on2 paired with a OST. It's weird how both factions complement each other hand in hand.

..Now that the veterancy has been mostly brought in line, perhaps it would be best to change the 5-level veterancy to a 3-level.
..

The veterancy system is very far from being in line.

OKW veterancy was not overhauled it was simply nerfed by removing combat bonuses from vet 4 and vet 5 leaving many OKW units with less vet bonuses at vet 3 than the counterparts at vet 3 (and gaining mostly utility for 4 and 5).

For instance conscripts have better vet bonuses than VG and Penal have better vet bonuses than PF.

In addition although many units where re-balanced according to a new price most of them did not get a new XP value that translates to many unit are now vetting faster than they should.

Finally although many unit had their vet bonuses and abilities adapted Ostheer units remain stuck with the same bonuses and abilities for around 4 years now and having trouble copying with the other factions.

A complete vet system overhaul is long overdue.

That's largely subjective, you can't compare the veterancy bonuses of conscripts and VGs in a void without considering the rest of the game. There will be countless games where VGs will obtain VET 4-5 easily, whereas conscripts VET3 conscripts will remain an uncommon sight. If a SOV player get their conscripts to VET3, I don't see any problems with them being rewarded with stronger bonii.

That's largely subjective, you can't compare the veterancy bonuses of conscripts and VGs in a void without considering the rest of the game. There will be countless games where VGs will obtain VET 4-5 easily, whereas conscripts VET3 conscripts will remain an uncommon sight. If a SOV player get their conscripts to VET3, I don't see any problems with them being rewarded with stronger bonii.

Actually it is not subjective it is a fact.

The changes did not bring the system in line they simply removed vet 4 and vet 5 combat bonuses and moved utility bonuses to vet 4 and vet 5.

The veterancy system is not there to change the relative balance of units unless dictated by faction (which was part of OKW faction design) or specific unit design.

There is little reason for conscripts to have better vet bonuses than VG or gain combat bonuses before grenadiers or for Penal to have some of the best vet bonuses in the game or for SU-76 to have such a low XP value or for M36 to have the same XP value although now being more expensive/effective.

My point is and remains that veterancy systems needs a complete overhaul that would include new XP values according to the new prices, new vet abilities and new vet bonuses custom made for each units role. And it is long overdue.

No, it appears you are attempting to push your opinion into a fact. How did you conclude that one unit's veterancy level is better than another without looking at veterancy in a void? Of course it'll be fact if you only consider and arbitrarily hand-pick certain aspects. You should accept that the way you describe your approach is subjective. Furthermore, it is not even relevant to the thread that conscripts may have a better end game veterancy than some OKW units.

Calling for an overhaul is easy, but obtaining and setting the raw data is the tricky bit. If you want a fact; the game's balance is more than just perfect symmetry based on statistical analysis of an units values. The most recent overhaul was achieved through the constant player feedback loop of the winter balance patch - this helped the game to be more fun than it was before, despite the few hick-ups (e.g. in this case, some OKW features).

Let's move to other subjects than arguing fact/opinion. There are other problems at hand. In either case, the problem with OKW is not its recent veterancy overhaul. From experience, I believe it is Sturmpios being needed for everything, Obers not being that great at their job, and the Raketen heavily relying on too many random variables outside of player control (the unit is the most wonky AT there is).

No, it appears you are attempting to push your opinion into a fact. How did you conclude that one unit's veterancy level is better than another without looking at veterancy in a void? Of course it'll be fact if you only consider and arbitrarily hand-pick certain aspects. You should accept that the way you describe your approach is subjective. Furthermore, it is not even relevant to the thread that conscripts may have a better end game veterancy than some OKW units.

Calling for an overhaul is easy, but obtaining and setting the raw data is the tricky bit. If you want a fact; the game's balance is more than just perfect symmetry based on statistical analysis of an units values. The most recent overhaul was achieved through the constant player feedback loop of the winter balance patch - this helped the game to be more fun than it was before, despite the few hick-ups (e.g. in this case, some OKW features).

Let's move to other subjects than arguing fact/opinion. There are other problems at hand. In either case, the problem with OKW is not its recent veterancy overhaul. From experience, I believe it is Sturmpios being needed for everything, Obers not being that great at their job, and the Raketen heavily relying on too many random variables outside of player control (the unit is the most wonky AT there is).

The need of veterancy system overhaul is once more a fact and not an opinion.

(edited at request of poster, since he felt misrepresented)

No, it appears you are attempting to push your opinion into a fact....

The need of veterancy system overhaul is once more a fact and not an opinion.

I've written a lot more than just that single sentence! I suggest to you to read the whole paragraph and post instead of picking out one sentence to set it out of its intended context.

I've written a lot more than just that single sentence! I suggest to read the whole paragraph instead of picking out one sentence out of context.

I suggest you read and understand what I write before responding. My post clearly point out that that vet system is NOT brought in line and it needs an overhaul.

The veterancy system is very far from being in line.
...
A complete vet system overhaul is long overdue.

I suggest you read and understand what I write before responding. My post clearly point out that that vet system is NOT brought in line and it needs an overhaul.

Sigh, we're back at this senseless bickering again. This could have been easily avoided by you not taking sentences out of their context and paragraph to quote a different subject. I disagree with that practice. My post includes your opinion as part of a constructive and friendly reply. However, it appears to me that you are taking one sentence out of it without its respective context to go on a topic's tangent.

On Topic: I'm glad that you think that it may be fact that yet another veterancy overhaul is needed, however I strongly believe, through experience, and in agreement with others in this thread, that there are other smaller issues at hand (as explained above, SturmPios, Obers, and Raketen/Puppchen) that would benefit OKW's general balance.

Sigh, we're back at this senseless bickering again. This could have been easily avoided by you not taking sentences out of their context and paragraph to quote a different subject. I disagree with that practice. My post includes your opinion as part of a constructive and friendly reply. However, it appears to me that you are taking one sentence out of it without its respective context to go on a topic's tangent.

On Topic: I'm glad that you think that it may be fact that yet another veterancy overhaul is needed, however I strongly believe, through experience, and in agreement with others in this thread, that there are other smaller issues at hand (as explained above, SturmPios, Obers, and Raketen/Puppchen) that would benefit OKW's general balance.

You are actually bickering I am not. I am actually clarifying my position since you seem to have trouble understanding.

On Topic:
The veterancy overhaul is large issue than simply OKW but it also benefit OKW. It is also far more important and urgent. There is little point in re-balancing unit and then have to re-balance them again when their veterancy issues are fixed.

You are actually bickering I am not. I am actually clarifying my position since you seem to have trouble understanding.

Was this sentence really needed? Honest question.

I'm trying hard to be respectful to your posts - i fail to get a return when facing this type of replies, especially when I clearly and in a most friendly manner said that I understood you!

Please, I just refreshed the page, and you have edited the content of your posts older than an hour to change the flow our conversation. Do I have now to edit my posts to reflect your edits or what? You're making this incredibly confusing!

the problem with sov cons are: the high accuracy.

it s possible to pick up weapons. when you have a brit with right commander he can give double vickers...which is really on the OPNess line now.

or you get lmg from OKW/ ost units...which make them really dps/kill monster. for y low price and many utitlys

the problem with sov cons are: the high accuracy.

it s possible to pick up weapons. when you have a brit with right commander he can give double vickers...which is really on the OPNess line now.

or you get lmg from OKW/ ost units...which make them really dps/kill monster. for y low price and many utitlys

..... they have 1 weapon slot.....

the problem with sov cons are: the high accuracy

Incorrect, accuracy is tied to weapon, not squad, only veterancy bonuses apply to squad.

it s possible to pick up weapons. when you have a brit with right commander he can give double vickers...which is really on the OPNess line now.

Incorrect, cons can only have one extra weapon and their nagat accuracy does not affect any other weapon they use.

or you get lmg from OKW/ ost units...which make them really dps/kill monster. for y low price and many utitlys

How is that even an argument?

Also, just use your grens for exactly the same very low price with just as much utilities that happen to perform better.

I've beat some very good teams in 2v2 as double OKW (example, VonAsten and I stomped Talisman/Hooligan) so I am inclined to believe they are not bad, rather there are just a lot of bad players who can't adapt or learn to play better.

I've beat some very good teams in 2v2 as double OKW (example, VonAsten and I stomped Talisman/Hooligan) so I am inclined to believe they are not bad, rather there are just a lot of bad players who can't adapt or learn to play better.

when was this? before the last patch 3years ago?

your playercard say something like this:

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/10/steamid/76561197985783392

when was this? before the last patch 3years ago?

your playercard say something like this:

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/10/steamid/76561197985783392

He mentioned VonAsten by name, so check the 2p AT:

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/2/steamid/76561197985783392

The game was played on February 15, 2018, and saved at 2:14pm. Do you want me to upload it, too? Maybe then you can watch it and learn a thing or two. BTW my 1v1 stats don't reflect much. I haven't touched 1v1 in a year and although my winrates are bad, I was level 18/19 with all factions. Can you say the same? Or you just going to continue crying that OKW is bad because YOU'RE bad with OKW?