Sturmtiger post-nerf

For a long time, the Sturmtiger had been considered useless by many Axis players for a longtime, due to the fact that its long firing time made its shots easily avoidable by good micro, and its ridiculously short range destroyed any potential element of surprise, essentially making the tank a very expensive coffin.

The only effective way to use the Sturmtiger was to hide it behind a solid map object like a house etc. Even then it was a bit hit-and-miss, with the Sturmtiger's shorts often falling short. I felt that with the immense amount of damage this vehicle was capable of inflicting, its innacuracy combined with its vulnerability and long vulnerable reload time, the vehicle was fairly balanced

Now, post nerf: After the ninja-nerf of the Sturmtiger making it unable to fire through any map object, it is now utterly useless. Any potential for ambushing with this unit is gone, leaving only the tenuous possibility of a lucky shot head-on.

Before the ninja-nerf, the Sturmtiger doctrine (Elite Armoured) was one of the least-used doctrines (indeed, I only ever saw one other person use it in a team game, and I may have been one of the few people who semi-regularly used this vehicle, as I loved this tank for its unique gameplay). After the ninja-nerf, this doctrine is going to obtain the same obscurity as the also-nerfed-to-uselessness Overwatch Doctrine.

Edit: I can get over the higher unit price, and I can also get over the inability to fire through map objects as that doesn't make much sense. However, the only reason people used the Sturmtiger through buildings/map objs, was because the Sturmtiger was useless otherwise.

Suggestions to rebalance the Sturmtiger: it should get a significantly larger range. The Sturmtiger was an assault gun; somewhere between a tank and an artillery piece. Its role and stats in the game should reflect this. To counterbalance this, it could have its LOS reduced, or limited to a cone in front of the vehicle to place emphasis on its role as a support unit.

i do agree with you the that the unit is almost useless now against half decent players, but before the nerf being able to fire through objects, leaving NO CHANCE for your enemies to react and losing entire squads and tanks was beyond BS, for me it offended worse then demos.

I personally think this unit needs to be reworked, I'd make it like the brummbar with tiger level armour

and its ridiculously short range destroyed any potential element of surprise

Uhhh what? It could fire on most infantry/tanks from beyond their sight range AND through LOS blockers. That is the definition of the element of surprise, as it leaves you with only the travel time of the rocket to micro away.

It was far from considered useless in anything above 1v1. It was a very popular unit in team games due to the clustering of units, and was crazy OP. Worth pointing out that its old cost of 160 fuel was the same exact price as when OKW had 2/3 fuel income.

It got nerfed into irrelevancy.

Some changes were needed, but it got more than triple nerfed which has never been a good idea balance wise.

Such a unit should have never been in the game on the 1st place, if two shotting mediums by the JT or Elefant was too much, how is one shotting them by this abomination okay?

Uhhh what? It could fire on most infantry/tanks from beyond their sight range AND through LOS blockers. That is the definition of the element of surprise, as it leaves you with only the travel time of the rocket to micro away.

It was far from considered useless in anything above 1v1. It was a very popular unit in team games due to the clustering of units, and was crazy OP. Worth pointing out that its old cost of 160 fuel was the same exact price as when OKW had 2/3 fuel income.

I don't know when the last time you played was, but for the last 6-12 months, the Sturmtiger has had a significantly lower firing range than any infantry LOS radius.

I can get over it not being able to fire through buildings as it doesn't make that much sense, and I can get over its higher price, but it should have its range at least doubled. It's a support unit, an assault gun. It's role lies somewhere between that of a tank and that of an artillery piece. Changes should be made to reflect this.

ST/Avre shouldn't be in the game, both are pretty useless unless as AT but you need setup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhXxK2TGTEA

This is why.

Not that something like this could happen, but that a clip from a top streaming player tends to be taken as evidence of the norm. After all, I'd wager more people have probably seen the above clip than have seen a Sturmtiger operate as effectively. (Let alone used one in such a fashion themselves.)

Regardless, the damned unit used to be a stock option for OKW. It's been a problematic unit for sure, but it was ultimately nerfed in the wrong ways for the wrong reasons.

At a certain point it probably would've been better just to make it a sort of a mobile B4 firing railway arty type rounds on a similar cooldown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhXxK2TGTEA

This is why.

Not that something like this could happen, but that a clip from a top streaming player tends to be taken as evidence of the norm. After all, I'd wager more people have probably seen the above clip than have seen a Sturmtiger operate as effectively. (Let alone used one in such a fashion themselves.)

I'll be frank; HelpingHans made a mistake. He normally plays well, but in that instance, was playing like someone who'd just bought the game. The loss of his three tanks could have easily been avoided, by even slightly microing his tanks. From the moment he saw the Sturmtiger, to the moment it fired, he had about 10 seconds to react, and he failed to do so.

An example of one Twitch streamer making a mistake does not mean the Sturmtiger is a viable weapon. People playing badly and blaming their woes on 'STURMTIGER OP' (not that Hans did, but most people who lose units tend to blame it on the relative balance of opposing units, rather than their own bad play) is likely what got this vehicle nerfed into 'irrelevancy' as one user finely put it.

T34/85 OP
SHOCK TROOPS OP
STURMPIONEERS OP
JAGDTIGER OP
ELEFANT OP
MG42 OP
...Sturmtiger OP

you get the idea. Most things in this game are fairly well balanced, and ironically, those which are overperforming typically only seem to be doing so because their counterparts got nerfed unjustly.

I'll be frank; HelpingHans made a mistake. He normally plays well, but in that instance, was playing like someone who'd just bought the game. The loss of his three tanks could have easily been avoided, by even slightly microing his tanks. From the moment he saw the Sturmtiger, to the moment it fired, he had about 10 seconds to react, and he failed to do so.

An example of one Twitch streamer making a mistake does not mean the Sturmtiger is a viable weapon.

Of course! The point is not that he lost his tanks, it's that an example of one Twitch streamer tends to take over in its own right. It's actually got nothing to do with Hans, his gameplay, or even the Sturmtiger.

It was too cancerous to be in the game, it should have never been added in the first place.
The sturm tiger was too good at killing vetted up units. Maybe if the unit could be killed in 3 or 4 hits, it might have been balanced.

i do agree with you the that the unit is almost useless now against half decent players, but before the nerf being able to fire through objects, leaving NO CHANCE for your enemies to react and losing entire squads and tanks was beyond BS, for me it offended worse then demos.

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^ /thread

Firing through objects and shot blockers are just poor gimmicks and punish good players and can reduce the game to solid cheese. I see the sturmtiger as a unit you can take both ways but only one way. Either its a large AOE damage dealing area denial "back the fuck up gun" that it is now or, its the wanna be brumbar with fast targeting/firing but smaller aoe and damage but quicker reload -similar to AVRE-.

So TL;DR, the Sturmtiger was over-nerfed into uselessness, and needs a buff or buffs in some areas to bring it back to the point of usability.

Did I miss something or can the ST still not be used to make using support weapons a complete pain? Seriously, just because you can't cheese units through shot blockers (or beyond their sight range) doesn't mean that you still can't use it to constantly threaten support weapons and force them to pack up or get wrecked. You just have to get used to using it as a non-cheese unit. (Not that it matters all that much because the commander is pretty lackluster outside of HEAT rounds) . You also forget that it got a 10 second reload buff which is pretty substantial.

the thing is useless now and works only vs noobs.

but...not the AVRE...its n a good spot, cause of more mobile than ST, have turrent, and reload while moving...a complete other tank with much advantage ..

not this broken shit ST right now which is more on standing an waiting 5min to get a luky shot....

Sturmtiger is just a horrible design and should have never been put into the game because it´s impossible to balance it right. If anything it should have been implemented more like the KV2 but with increased reload and more damage per shot. The way it is implemented now is just totally braindead and makes me cringe considering how it was used in WW2.

ST can be redesigning to act more like in real life. A counter to fortification.

In game it can be redesign to counter emplacement and have bonus damage vs building as AVRE has.

Increase its range a bit, or reduce the aiming time and it's good.
OKW needs an answer to infantry blobs in team games, Ost already has the sturmpanzer and plenty of good off-map abilities in many doctrines.

I don't know when the last time you played was, but for the last 6-12 months, the Sturmtiger has had a significantly lower firing range than any infantry LOS radius.

Normal Infantry and tank LoS: 35
ST pre nerf: 45
ST post nerf: 40

I would keep it's pre nerf cost for starter, but it will always remain a cheese unit due to it's nature.

Idk it's just a unit that does things, i feel like it's a troll unit more then anything, i'd rather have a stukatrack then that thing, no matter which condition of balance it was in.