AT infantry for OKW?

Plob obers in medical HQ truck.

Give them double shreck upgrade, maybe, MAYBE lower their mp price, MAYBE.

???

Profit.

I'm with him.

The Raktenwerfer can retreat, so it's kinda like an AT Infantry Squad?

If he somehow has like 4-5 riflemen, 2 rears and a captain with zooks how has he not been bleeding that whole game? USF hemorrhages manpower after 3 riflemen. How many bazookas did he buy? they are 50 munitions per. Where are your weapon upgrades so you can easily win engagements?

Volks don't deal a lot of damage, even at late game since they're nerfed, so the riflemen vs volks bleeding shouldn't be that bad

Using the infantry support gun is a gamble at best, since now it is only good for barraging static targets, and USF isn't a "static" faction

The only OKW infantry units that have the power to stop riflemen are obersoldatens, and panzerfusiliers to an extend, but they come a bit later

The Raktenwerfer can retreat, so it's kinda like an AT Infantry Squad?

Yeah, except that it can't magically turn 180 degree in an instant to fire at a flanking vehicle like an AT infantry squad

And its range is ridiculously short for a proper ATG

Yeah, except that it can't magically turn 180 degree in an instant to fire at a flanking vehicle like an AT infantry squad

And its range is ridiculously short for a proper ATG

Well, it has it's own perks too, I know it's inconsistent but besides Paratroopers most Bazooka lack damage and penetration.

Volks don't deal a lot of damage, even at late game since they're nerfed, so the riflemen vs volks bleeding shouldn't be that bad

Using the infantry support gun is a gamble at best, since now it is only good for barraging static targets, and USF isn't a "static" faction

The only OKW infantry units that have the power to stop riflemen are obersoldatens, and panzerfusiliers to an extend, but they come a bit later

Volks actually do pretty good damage, up to mid range they closely match riflemen in dps (range 20, 2.7). Late game isn't where bleeding occurs, it occurs when OKW is aggressive early game or when USF constantly contests objectives on the map.

I never brought up the ISG. USF don't typically use a mortar against OKW also for that very reason. Your argument is that volks can't stop riflemen late game, which is true IF the riflemen get bars. Yet you also argue that the USF player has like, 4-6 bazookas with multiple echelons (Which bleed because they cannot win against anything other then ost pio's). So he has 4-6 bazookas on echs and 6-8 bars on rifles? What have you been spending muni's on?

If the answer is flame grenades to win engagements, then you should be winning.

Here's the thing, if your opponent is massing say, riflemen with 2 bazooka's, they are lacking pretty heavily in the anti-infantry department. Which means you wouldn't really want to build medium tanks (Unless you kite of course). This was the problem with volks and shreks back in the day, but there's a primary difference.

Axis can get heavier tanks then just mediums. So whereas panzershrek blobs literally nullified allied vehicles, as axis it's more of a "Wait till I get a tank with higher armor out" or kiting with your tank with infantry in the front. Additionally MG's actually work against blobs now (for the most part). That zooka blob won't do jack against a brumbar.

Penals are a bit different, being 6 man means they have 4 anti infantry and 2 AT. The extra man causes it to be more ridiculous in mass quantities. Additionally PTRS can still hit infantry unlike most AT.

So you're just going to ignore the fact that a piv can be countered by REs with zooks

Old argument: AT on okw inf is bad!
Hypocritical argument: it is ok on all allied mainline inf.

That's disgusting hypocrisy.


Get a Brummbaer? Get heavier armour?

FFS... ok, got Bruemm, oh look, 2x t34s, sherman (which was on field while i waited) and soon jackson, ooh, cromwell too. Do you even play this game?? Get a Bruemmbar ffs. . .

Axis can barely make use of their meds to stop allied blobs due to allied inf AT.

MGs get flanked, volks and grens lose to rifles and tommies and penals.

Allied lights 》 axis lights.

It's an uphill atruggle to get to a med and whwn you do, you get pushed away by ptrs and zooks. As well as the allied meds which come quicker due to better map control due to blob which can magically become AT blob when it has to.

Look at the FCKNG reality

Well, it has it's own perks too, I know it's inconsistent but besides Paratroopers most Bazooka lack damage and penetration.

I dunno if it's just RNG playing tricks against me but recently I've had games where zooks keep wrecking my luchs and pumas really quick, sometimes even P4s, they don't seem to be too bad

If the answer is flame grenades to win engagements, then you should be winning.

If he's keeping tabs on his rifles then there's no way flame grenades can win an engagement, he can just order his squad to another cover like another section of the wall

I miss the Ost grenadier's rifle grenade when using volks

So you're just going to ignore the fact that a piv can be countered by REs with zooks

Old argument: AT on okw inf is bad!
Hypocritical argument: it is ok on all allied mainline inf.

That's disgusting hypocrisy.

It's not hypocritical when the inf AT are drastically different and are against different factions all together. If Volks had say, bazookas instead of shreks back in the day it wouldn't of been the worst thing in the world, because bazookas can plink off medium armor and deal less damage. Shreks don't, shreks rarely ever plink on medium armor and do more damage.

Then, when even heavier armor hits the field you'd be hard pressed to find bazookas even penetrating a brumbar or panther unless in high quantities. If they are in high quantities then your opponent clearly has no anti-infantry capabilities. A Panzer 4 can be "deterred" with say, 4 bazookas, not countered. Just as an AT gun deters a tank, but technically doesn't counter it. It only counters it if you lose your tank to said anti-tank weapons. Cuz when it comes to Inf-AT, they have an 8 secondish reload time, that's a long time. The reason panzershreks were so ridiculous were that shreks not only have higher damage, but higher pen leading to alpha strikes. Let's do some math

(medium tanks have 640 health, typically 180 armor)
Bazookas do 80 per, so per bazooka: 80, 160, 240, 300, 380, 460, 540, 620, 700

Shreks do 120 per, so per shrek 120, 240, 360, 480, 600, 720

So even if you had 4 bazookas it would take at least 9 shots ASSUMING none of the shots miss or plink. Add on the 8 second reload time (Where you can shoot the crap out of them). When you say spammed volks, you could easily hit 5-6 volks. Which is just enough to either almost alpha strike or straight up alpha strike a tank.

I agree that guards/penals do pose a certain problem in which they are good against both Infantry and tanks. The upside is they lose to dedicated platforms. Like Guards/penals can't beat true elite infantry, like obers. They also can't do massive damage to heavier tanks.

I'm with him.

For once.

Or twice.

I dunno if it's just RNG playing tricks against me but recently I've had games where zooks keep wrecking my luchs and pumas really quick, sometimes even P4s, they don't seem to be too bad

Bazookas will always penetrate light vehicles, but they struggle against Panzer IVs with skirts, specially at max range, with 2 you do 160, about the same as a Tank, if both hits land and penetrate, making using Bazookas in the late game vs actual Tanks very manpower intensive.

For once.

Or twice.

I'm with them

If he's keeping tabs on his rifles then there's no way flame grenades can win an engagement, he can just order his squad to another cover like another section of the wall

I miss the Ost grenadier's rifle grenade when using volks

You just won by throwing it. You forced your opponent out of cover to move while your troops shot at him and you are in cover. If it's a wall where he can kind of glide across heavy cover technically he's moving and shooting and not standing still shooting, though that's more of a bad place to throw a grenade in general.

Ost rifle grenade is pretty boss. Thing is, its absolutely worthless point blank, whereas flame grenade is great at point blank.

also zooks/piats/ptrs are meant to counter light vehicles like puma and luches.
Then they can sort of deter medium tanks
then they can't really deal with heavy tanks at all.

technically if kiting is involved vehicles still counter those due to their range of 40 compared to infantry range of 35.

Here's the thing, if your opponent is massing say, riflemen with 2 bazooka's, they are lacking pretty heavily in the anti-infantry department. Which means you wouldn't really want to build medium tanks (Unless you kite of course). This was the problem with volks and shreks back in the day, but there's a primary difference.

Axis can get heavier tanks then just mediums. So whereas panzershrek blobs literally nullified allied vehicles, as axis it's more of a "Wait till I get a tank with higher armor out" or kiting with your tank with infantry in the front. Additionally MG's actually work against blobs now (for the most part). That zooka blob won't do jack against a brumbar.

Penals are a bit different, being 6 man means they have 4 anti infantry and 2 AT. The extra man causes it to be more ridiculous in mass quantities. Additionally PTRS can still hit infantry unlike most AT.

What's the point are you even trying to make here? That OKW shold not have proper infantry based AT because KT has a lot of HP and armor? How is this even relevant? Shold we remove piats too then because, you know, churchill has more HP than any axis tank for some reason?
This is one of the most glaring problems OKW has right now, along with trash support weapons and insane medic cost.

Fausts are good for snaring, they don't do serious damage like schrecks, and against decent players they will just reverse their vehicle as soon as they see volks come running, and flanking is just wishful thinking, considering the lack of urban maps nowadays

I dunno about you, but I'd rather have a pak than that cheesy raketen

Flakning is just wishful?idk about you buddy,but i usually able to flank tank just fine.Also Allies flank my KingTiger like pro with penal :'( ,it had nothing to do with how big the map is,flanking is a tactic.

What's the point are you even trying to make here? That OKW shold not have proper infantry based AT because KT has a lot of HP and armor? How is this even relevant? Shold we remove piats too then because, you know, churchill has more HP than any axis tank for some reason?
This is one of the most glaring problems OKW has right now, along with trash support weapons and insane medic cost.

the argument was that allied zook/piat blobs are somehow on the same level as old volk shrek blobs, which trust me they aren't.

Giving shreks to Volks may still be out of the question, Sturms with two shreks probably wouldn't be too bad. I liked that one guys idea of obers come out early but no LMG, but can also get 2 shreks.

Well they ARE, but all them are minimum 280mp and a fuel sidegrade and then muntions ontop at the very least. Non of them self heal either. Penals while hellishly OP do have the worst AT weapon for assaults, long aimtime means no snapfire guided missiles, and low damage means no alpha strike. They are the molitov of AT weapons. (Although they are still OP)

Penal PTRS can penetrate a Panther tank and kill it with charges,not anything to laught at i can tell you that much

Typical response.

Allied blobs nearly aren't as powerfull against german armor because of the difference between penetration rates and heavier german armor values(Panzershreck pens waaaay more frequently than the M9 and PTRS). Not to mention rifles and penals are more expensive to build and reinforce, something that the volksgrens dont have as a downside.

IDK which patch you been playing at but penal and rifles don't cost more then volk,now volk took way longer to reinforce once they veted.Also i see PTRS penetrated and KILLed a Panther tank want prove?

You just won by throwing it. You forced your opponent out of cover to move while your troops shot at him and you are in cover. If it's a wall where he can kind of glide across heavy cover technically he's moving and shooting and not standing still shooting, though that's more of a bad place to throw a grenade in general.

The bad thing is most maps are open and have enough wall-like cover for him to glide around (like the wooden fences, for example), if it's a bad place to throw a nade then forcing him to move by that nade seems pretty pointless, no?

Also, we are kinda derailing here. The point is that a single schreck on SP usually misses, when it does hit it doesn't do much against medium tanks, I just want some effective MP-related tool to deal with the daily dose of Allies medium spam, especially the t34-85, sherman m4c and sherman E8, that's a big problem in team games