Solution to hmg spam

MG42 can't be spammed.

/Thread.

Price would like to have a word with you.

Price would like to have a word with you.

That's not fair. You can silence every spam discussion by throwing price in

That is not exaclty true, only a few "elite" squads got their reinforcement ever changed.

It is completely accurate. Check the reinforcement cost for most units that had their cost changed in the recent patches. You will see that the "rules" about reinforcement cost, time and build time where not taken into consideration indicating that they no longer apply.

There is at least 20 team weapons in the game. Only maxim, DShK and MG-34 don't follow the rule and in case of MG-34 it is just a 1mp discount (which still makes it the cheapest to reinforce mg in the game). MG-34 is actually cheaper to reinforce than MG-42.

I only mentioned HMGs. The rule did not apply to them before the latest patches and it does not apply now either.

HMG-34 reinforcement cost was higher then that of HMG-42 before the patch as I pointed out.

Currently the HMG-34 (with a 250 manpower cost cheapest), is only 0.5 cheaper to reinforce than the 280 manpower HMG and more expensive than 300 Dshk.

The cheapest to reinforce remain the maxim and Dhsk because the comparison must be done per entity and not from a crew of 1.

Comparing full reinfocement cost is the only solution. If you try to ballance the costs around single entity cost, then all you get is that bigger squads are disadvantaged by their size and become just a manpower sink. Remember that these models are actually weaker to compensate for the squad size. For example if conscripts were 30 to reinforce like grens, they would also have to be as good in combat as grens. Nobody would like that ballance wise.

The crew of HMG are not weaker that are almost identical, so the comparison must be done per entity and NOT for full squad. That means that Dhsk is the cheapest to reinforce although it is the most expensive to buy.

Show Spoiler


At the issue of this tread imo one could indirectly nerf HMG spam by:

reduce the speed or even remove the ability to Cap
increase reinforcement time.
remove sprint from hmgs
make AP round vet 1 ability for 0.50/dhsk that work similar to current Dhsk levels and scales with veterancy
Check if HMG-42 need any adjustments.

From a 2v2 perspective, you have so much to say in theory, but you lack the skill in execution. Leigs are a waste of manpower because you can’t AFK it near a battlegroup and still have it shoot to the frontline? With that logic, the mortar pit is absolute trash as well because one has to actually press a few buttons to barrage past auto attack range now.

I'm talking from a 1v1 prespective and everyone knows that leigs are pretty lackluster, you only really feel their presence if you have 2+ of them on the field while one pack howitzer from usf is very very well felt wiping squads that are out of cover and having various fire modes but that's another topic for discussion. I don't afk indirect fire and hope for it to do big work, I am even all for removing the cancer autofire from indirect fire so games aren't as cancerous to play when indirect fire is spammed.

What’s really happening is that you’re being presented with certain challenges that you dislike and refuse to adapt to. You have the tools necessary to overcome(mortar/leig) but you refuse to use them and instead whine about it on the forums. Have you thought about rushing a flame HT, getting a stuka, a luchs, smoke and flank, a panzer 4?

One might have the tools in theory but how effective are they? As I seid above leigs are only really felt when you have 2+ of them and wehr tier two is so expensive that in most cases you are better off skipping it seing how weak 2 units are and how much of an investment getting a flame halftrack is and it gets rekt basically when it gets in the field in team games (AEC/Stuart/AA halftrack/T70/Su-76) so it is really only viable in 1v1's tbh.

People need to think about what they can do to win with what’s available in the game right now, before crying on the forums. The patch is barely a month old and rank 1000s are apparently experts already calling for balance changes.

I'm not really rank 1000 and I do play the game a lot so I think that as a average 1v1/2v2 player I do have some valuable feedback regarding blance, I'm not crying. You tho might have good rank but I bet you have it by using broken strats as brosras used maxim spam and you used infantry section spam with double upgrade... With that in mind you do acknowledge that those particular strats don't really have a good counter and thus you use those strats because they are the most broken ones and the ones that win more games.

And tell your buddy that if he wants to “see” if exploits are true, he can do it in a custom lobby. But you guys did it twice in a row, so there must be more to it.

If he used exploits it was really only one time, I bet that when you find something broken you get so shocked that you just want to try it one time yourself to see how ridiculous it really is, I do this with everything I post on the forums so I am sure if certain units are broken or not so I can avoid biased posts. Can't say the same thing about you it seems...

I'm not really rank 1000 and I do play the game a lot so I think that as a average 1v1/2v2 player I do have some valuable feedback regarding blance, I'm not crying. You tho might have good rank but I bet you have it by using broken strats as brosras used maxim spam and you used infantry section spam with double upgrade... With that in mind you do acknowledge that those particular strats don't really have a good counter and thus you use those strats because they are the most broken ones and the ones that win more games.

Try to use our methods, and get at least in the top 10, and then, it will be possible to say with certainty that these are broken methods,but for now, this is all nonsense.

I am not sure why this thread has decade in a number of personal comments.

HMG spam and especially maxim spam is a valid strategy that works and has become more viable with latest patch since the maxim was buffed.

Measures can be taken to weaken the effectiveness of the this type of strategies without making HMG a waster of resources.

I am not sure why this thread has decade in a number of personal comments.

Compelitely agree, now on topic.

Try to use our methods, and get at least in the top 10, and then, it will be possible to say with certainty that these are broken methods,but for now, this is all nonsense.

Zarok has proven this point long ago but I guess it is my turn to prove this point, that was proven and is supported by the one that did prove it in the past, again...

HMG spam and especially maxim spam is a valid strategy that works and has become more viable with latest patch since the maxim was buffed.

Measures can be taken to weaken the effectiveness of the this type of strategies without making HMG a waster of resources.

I agree that hmg spam is a valid strat but every strat should have a reliable counter and maxim spam into 3 guards doesn't really have that, you can beat it by your oponent not executing the strat right or by cheer luck and/or timing in engagements/open oportunities to take advantage of. Wehr has ok counters but okw lack them entirely since they don't have a sniper and good indirect fire, they do have the flame hetzer but I'm sure 3 guards + mark vehicle + buttom can deal with it if and if not by the time you have the hetzer the soviet player would have su's already on the field.

Zarok has proven this point long ago but I guess it is my turn to prove this point, that was proven and is supported by the one that did prove it in the past, again...

for the abilities of Zarok I have no doubt, I'm more interested in letting you use it, just as effectively as he does.

why it was not interviewed that all the mg, except the soviet, are teleported, between the members of the detachment, at that time, to the soviet machine gun, the soldiers must run up, with loss

for the abilities of Zarok I have no doubt, I'm more interested in letting you use it, just as effectively as he does.

As much as I like this statement (I really do) I was also told by another poster (who has yet again chosen to ignore me) that beating enough players doesn't actually mean anything in regards to maximspam.

Infact, yet another poster claimed my skill with maxims was so great, I overcome any weakness the unit has.

At this point, I need to update my "moving the goalpost" story I have on my stream, since it seems there is no end to what one needs to do before one can say "maxims OP".

That's not fair. You can silence every spam discussion by throwing price in

8 is the record I've seen from him so far

I'm talking from a 1v1 prespective and everyone knows that leigs are pretty lackluster, you only really feel their presence if you have 2+ of them on the field while one pack howitzer from usf is very very well felt wiping squads that are out of cover and having various fire modes but that's another topic for discussion. I don't afk indirect fire and hope for it to do big work, I am even all for removing the cancer autofire from indirect fire so games aren't as cancerous to play when indirect fire is spammed.



One might have the tools in theory but how effective are they? As I seid above leigs are only really felt when you have 2+ of them and wehr tier two is so expensive that in most cases you are better off skipping it seing how weak 2 units are and how much of an investment getting a flame halftrack is and it gets rekt basically when it gets in the field in team games (AEC/Stuart/AA halftrack/T70/Su-76) so it is really only viable in 1v1's tbh.



I'm not really rank 1000 and I do play the game a lot so I think that as a average 1v1/2v2 player I do have some valuable feedback regarding blance, I'm not crying. You tho might have good rank but I bet you have it by using broken strats as brosras used maxim spam and you used infantry section spam with double upgrade... With that in mind you do acknowledge that those particular strats don't really have a good counter and thus you use those strats because they are the most broken ones and the ones that win more games.



If he used exploits it was really only one time, I bet that when you find something broken you get so shocked that you just want to try it one time yourself to see how ridiculous it really is, I do this with everything I post on the forums so I am sure if certain units are broken or not so I can avoid biased posts. Can't say the same thing about you it seems...

The effect is in how you use it. So you’re not gonna build something because you, as a player, can’t maneuver around its counters? Is it a game design issue or player issue? The rank 1000 comment was not directly for you, but my statement still stands that perhaps people should get better at the game instead of blaming balance design. And OKW can afford double leigs, they’ve been able to afford it ever since it could pin units.

Broken strats like IS spam? You yourself said “4 core infantry isn’t spam”, I built 3 infantry sections and equipped 1 squad with a single bren.. In a standard opening i build 3 tommies max and max 1 bren because i feel the weapon drop rate is not worth the damage increase of doubling down. The only exception are with commandos. I do the strats i do because 1) i’m practicing my execution, 2) it’s a safe and comfortable opening for my style. And take note i did a 2 tommy, UC, sniper opening against you, which isn’t my standard. Otherwise, is it really my fault for playing something that i’ve practiced? Perhaps if i spammed universal carriers, you would’ve made a thread about that. I mean, you guys were crying about my 17 pounder.

And no, that’s crazy talk... “I saw an exploit so I’m gonna do it on automatch twice in a row” what can you possibly find out, crocs are good vs maxims? That’s where you should be theorycrafting instead of doing.

The only reason i’m being so personal about this is because in general, i feel a lot of the threads, especially regarding balance, are based on emotion(e.g this guy spanked me so hard with this unit plz nerf it) rather than rational thought(e.g this guy spanked me with this unit, what can i do to beat it). The crazy thing is that we’re telling you what you could’ve done based on our experience, but you just brush it off like “leigs are trash, mortars are too risky, 1 mg34 vs 6 maxims??? Plz” so whatever, let your ego get in the way of improving yourself as a player.

And OKW can afford double leigs, they’ve been able to afford it ever since it could pin units.

Before leigs costed 320 manpower if I'm not mistaken, two of them would be 640 manpower. With less manpower you could field two heavy mortars that would rek leigs or two regular mortars. In the live patch leigs are cheaper yes but I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that leigs lack AoE or range but the allies equivalent, pack howitzer, does wipes like it's nobody business and gets one extra fire more that if you are lucky enough you can hit a low health tank can kill it...

Broken strats like IS spam?

If I said spam I'm sorry, I meant that what is broken about IS is the fact that after you get bolster + brens the axis player loses all hope to win infantry engagements even hmgs can't stop them which I assume should be the logical counter to infantry...

I mean, you guys were crying about my 17 pounder.

First I don't think I cry about anything, I like to think I'm just pointing facts. Secondly, did I talk about the 17 pounder? If you want I can make a thread on how a non doc long range at gun get's self spotting flares compating to the pak 43 that is doctrinal, dies to a wind breeze and doesnt get any flare to self spot.

I feel a lot of the threads, especially regarding balance, are based on emotion

I do agree some players are emotional but again I think I'm just pointing out facts.

The crazy thing is that we’re telling you what you could’ve done based on our experience, but you just brush it off like “leigs are trash, mortars are too risky, 1 mg34 vs 6 maxims??? Plz”

I am taking your advices in consideration and I am trying to refute them/find a flaw to help everyone find the best way to deal with maxim spam. As I said before, and I'm sure some people agree, leigs are pretty weak. You need at least two of them to have the same effect that one regular mortar from any other faction has on the field and maybe you will need to be commander restricted to get the incendiary barrage just to counter this strat. As I'm aware okw doesn't have mortars and as I said before wehr does have a easier time countering this strat thanks to having sniper, good mortar, flame halftrack. Yes 1 mg 34 vs 6 maxims does sound crazy. That game, that you really like to talk about, my team mate did actually stole one maxim and it did nothing for him but again he probably was playing badly.

lost 2 units its np

fuel use

fuel use #2

While OKW held its fuel for KT my fuel was yielding results
and after that, you complain about the maxims, did you at least once watch the replay?

While OKW held its fuel for KT my fuel was yielding results
and after that, you complain about the maxims, did you at least once watch the replay?

I didn't watch the replay but yes that was a bad decision by my team mate but when I created this thread I had primarily the 1v1 scene in mind and not that much team games. Obviously with that fuel he could have gotten two walking stukas and a command panther + used flares to spot or even go with flame hetzer and mp40 in all his inf and spammed smoke from leigs + volks. Still his bad decision making don't really change my stand that a-moving maxim spam is very difficult to counter, specially as okw.

I didn't watch the replay but yes that was a bad decision by my team mate but when I created this thread I had primarily the 1v1 scene in mind and not that much team games. Obviously with that fuel he could have gotten two walking stukas and a command panther + used flares to spot or even go with flame hetzer and mp40 in all his inf and spammed smoke from leigs + volks. Still his bad decision making don't really change my stand that a-moving maxim spam is very difficult to counter, specially as okw.

Then, I will expect results from you in 1x1, it's so easy, go on the attack through A

Mortars and smoke.

If he spams maxims just get a fast flame vehicle as Ostheer.
Kubels can´t be surpressed and they´r fast.

I think worst case scenarios are where he can hide his maxims in buildings which is just bad map design.