If You Redesigned the Factions?

Ideally I'd like to hear more changes you'd make from a thematic perspective than a balancing one but it's up to you. Minute details aren't required.

For me, I'll start out with the Soviets. If I designed the Soviet faction, I'd...

Conscripts to Guards: This would be pretty significant but I'd actually make Conscripts have the option to upgrade to Guard once they hit Vet 2. I dunno, I always thought the idea of a three star elite Conscript squad as a bit odd. Wouldn't that conscript squad be rewarded with the opportunity to join the Guards?

Penals to Shock Troops: This unit really makes no sense thematically ingame. They're arguably better than conscripts in most combat situations when the idea of penal batallions in WWII was to probe an attack (see the enemy strength at the cost of their lives), delay the enemy, or just relentlessly and carelessy throw themselves at the enemy defenses until the enemy breaks or they do.

In CoH2 however, they're tougher than conscripts and arguably are as decent as other infantry squads in the other factions, they get better equipment than Conscripts (I'm fine with the satchel charges, but the AT rifles? Meh.) Flamethrowers I caaaan sorta see Penals charging in with them but I think they're a bit too beefy HP wise.

So what I'd do is make Penals squishy like Osttruppen, replace their SVTs with Nagants, let them keep their flame throwers and satchel charges. Once they hit Vet 2, they can upgrade to Shock Troops since they'd be experienced in assaults. Oh, Shock Troops would start out with a mix of PPSH and SVTs but you can upgrade them to go full PPSH, also they should get a satchel charge.

Commissar: I so don't understand why they got rid of the Commissar. While the 'Commissar massacres their own troops willy nilly' is exaggerated pop history, I think it's safe to say that the Soviets were more strictly hierarchical than the Germans and other nations. Soldiers weren't often allowed to make their own decisions so they relied on orders from above. And the commissar more or less would have filled that spot.

Instead for some odd reason, the Elite OKW get the Sturmoffizier who buffs units all around them just like the Commissar was supposed to do (i think the only difference is that when the Commissar died, all the troops nearby would be pinned whereas the Sturmoffizier's death forced retreat nearby infantry).

But yeah, definitely would have been thematically interesting to have a commissar leading from behind while the units around are less prone to being pinned or whatever and so the German players would want to snipe/take out the commissar. A 'For the Motherland'-esque ability to reduce suppression, maybe get a weaker version of Fear Propaganda as they vet up, then an arty barrage at Vet 3 like the USF Major.

T34-85 and KV-1 as Default Units: These really shouldn't be a call in unit. It's not like T34-85s were rare in the war (i may be wrong but more 85mms were produced than 76mms i believe) and I think it's safe to say that most players would rather have a strong all rounder tank like the 85mm, Panther, Easy Eight, etc. (less micro) than having to use a combo of T34-76s with AT support (more micro).

And as for KV-1s, again, why is this a call in unit? It's nowhere as powerful as an IS2 and it's weaker than a Panther tank. All it has going for it is its armor but even then Stugs, Pak 40s, rockets, and high velocity weapons will deal quite a punch. Its slow speed doesn't help. And the gun seems weaker than the 76mm T34 somehow.

probably USF for me

it's my favorite faction but i do acknowledge that it's lack so much dept in it

my idea for revamp probably make more option for them to be able to choose how they approach in early to mid game like unlock very early LT. for combined arm option .50cal + mortar but have to stick with T0 REs (garand upgradeable via vet)and teamweapon or unlock very early Cpt. for riflemen and light vehicle and maybe probably start with scout riflemen

I actually had the same idea about the T34/85 and the KV1, however the T-34/85 would be an upgrade, similar to the Sherman 76mm upgrade in CoH.

And of course I'd do the same for the USF, 76mm upgrade.

As far as faction redesign goes however, I'd probably give the British what is in my signature as well as doctrinal tank traps, perhaps replacing the fortifications upgrade in the Advanced Emplacements Regiment, that's about it for the UKF.

For the OKW I'd buff the MG34 a bit to make it actually worth while and make it T0, replace the Raketen with a Pak 38/40 and make it require T1 but keep it in the HQ.

Also give 3 upgrades to the HQ, medical, repair and requisition King Tiger, similar to the panther battlegroup call in for the PE in CoH to add an extra step of calling in the KT so people don't bitch that it's too cheap.

Also give the Schewerer Panzer HQ an unlock upgrade for it's Flak gun, so again people don't bitch about freebies but make all 3 upgrades cost ammo instead of fuel and manpower but of course I wouldn't mind if they stayed the way they are.

Anyhow, I'd also make the salvage either doctrinal or only be able to give you ammo instead of fuel as well, and give the OKW resource caches.

As for the USF, there's little saving it but yeah, replace the M2 60mm mortar with an actual M1 81mm mortar and either make it require T1 or something or stick it in another building, give the USF the T0 M1919A4 MG instead because the .50 cal is just too slow to move and it triggers me how a single guy can carry that big fucking thing like it's nothing, it just doesn't make sense to me. If you want soft vehicle counter you pay for AP bullets like in CoH, that's all.

Also give the USF a meat shield tank like the Sherman Jumbo to actually provide some cover for the fucking Jackson, similar to the British Churchill/Firefly combo, that works wonders compared to the underpowered tanks of the USF, well not really underpowered, more like underarmored but you get what I mean.

Also for the Ost, make a veterancy requirement or upgrade to 5 man squads like the British, having most of your squads be 4 man doesn't really help with getting wiped as other people have noted, and yeah yeah the MG42 upgrade for the Grenadiers adds another 25% boost to their firepower, just nerf it a bit and be done with it, they can't use the blasted thing if they're wiped by a single fucking explosive anyhow.

T34-85 and KV-1 as Default Units: These really shouldn't be a call in unit. It's not like T34-85s were rare in the war (i may be wrong but more 85mms were produced than 76mms i believe) and I think it's safe to say that most players would rather have a strong all rounder tank like the 85mm, Panther, Easy Eight, etc. (less micro) than having to use a combo of T34-76s with AT support (more micro).

And as for KV-1s, again, why is this a call in unit? It's nowhere as powerful as an IS2 and it's weaker than a Panther tank. All it has going for it is its armor but even then Stugs, Pak 40s, rockets, and high velocity weapons will deal quite a punch. Its slow speed doesn't help. And the gun seems weaker than the 76mm T34 somehow.

Design wise, commanders are not supposed to represent rare units, or the ones that are stright better than normal ones. They are ment to represent a thematic upgrade to a faction. T-34/85s were very common, so originally they would come in pairs. Similarly p4s were quite common so they originally were available for okw in pairs in armour doctrine callin. Just look at units like tiger, mortar ht ostwind and brummbear. First two are quite common, but they are in doctrines the other two were very rare yet they are in core armies. If units are supposed to be common but doctrinal, they are just put in multiple doctrines like tigers and t-34/85s.

probably USF for me

it's my favorite faction but i do acknowledge that it's lack so much dept in it

my idea for revamp probably make more option for them to be able to choose how they approach in early to mid game like unlock very early LT. for combined arm option .50cal + mortar but have to stick with T0 REs (garand upgradeable via vet)and teamweapon or unlock very early Cpt. for riflemen and light vehicle and maybe probably start with scout riflemen

Sounds interesting. It looks the Soviet tech tree at first where either you could go Special Rifles or Support Units. But I also feel like taking Riflemen away as the primary unit could be uite punishing unless the REs are buffed.

Okw infantry
1) 5 men core sturmpios with mp40 (upgreadable with 4 mp44, the remaining model)
2) panzerfusiliers 5 men stock with 2 g43 as upgrade and flame grenade/pfaust, 280 mp
3) 6 men no upgrade 240 mp volks in breakthrough at 0 cp, sturm offizier reworked like artillery officer to synergize
4) obersoldaten like actual obersoldaten
5) jaeger light infantry replaced with panzerjeager light infantry with 4 men and 2 panzershreck.

I would be compelled to include balance changes with any thematic redesign because it'd be necessary.

Still, in short:

Add global upgrades. Economy and vet (old supply yard from vcoh) upgrades. Easy to fit those in thematically.

Swap guards and penals thematically. Rename "Guard" commanders NKVD. (Old style penals, pre PTRS.) In terms if design, balance, and theme I think this is/was the right way to go.

Adjust both WFA indirect fire woes with mortar HT in stock arsenals. Give OKW a pak and air drop ISGS (and raketens) for both WFA factions as doctrinal options.

WFA factions have been victims of their original designs (and redesigns for OKW).

A number of doctrinal components of all factions, mostly WFA, are more appropriate as standard stock options.

The thing is since the western front armies were introduced the game balance went to the crapper, that's the problem of introducing new armies when existing ones are balanced 100% to each other. With this in mind what relic should have done is as the western front armies were introduced the existing armies should have changed in composition to adapt to fight these new armies.

Imo all armies should be redesigned, I have actually thought about all this and have made plans to make my own mod, I have everything ready but I've come to the stage were I lack modding skills and time to learn those same skills. :/

The Soviet faction never interested me because they didn't have a commander or playstyle that emphasized running in massive blobs of troops from all sides. No commissar, no commander that gave any special quirks to conscripts, nothing. It's what I wanted from soviets, not some CoH1 USF.

I actually liked USF more on release. That they were a faction that "lived on the razors edge" where they either won early game or lost horribly. I can understand homogenization but I generally don't like it. If I want to play a "normal" faction I'd just play soviets or ostheer, I want to play the other factions because they are vastly different then what I am used to.

Brits, just seems better to never add emplacements to the game because no one will ever be happy with their existence. Even if they aren't really all that cancerous by themselves it's just a design decision that ultimately goes to waste.

OKW, I liked their fuel/scavenge idea but alas. Seems best thing to do with the faction is a hyper aggressive early game, craptacular mid game, best late game. Has a cool "take and hold the line for dear life" vibe, or make them similar to old USF for people who want an aggressive only faction. Would be pretty sweet to watch USF and OKW duke it out in that fashion.

The Soviet faction never interested me because they didn't have a commander or playstyle that emphasized running in massive blobs of troops from all sides. No commissar, no commander that gave any special quirks to conscripts, nothing. It's what I wanted from soviets, not some CoH1 USF.

I actually liked USF more on release. That they were a faction that "lived on the razors edge" where they either won early game or lost horribly. I can understand homogenization but I generally don't like it. If I want to play a "normal" faction I'd just play soviets or ostheer, I want to play the other factions because they are vastly different then what I am used to.

Brits, just seems better to never add emplacements to the game because no one will ever be happy with their existence. Even if they aren't really all that cancerous by themselves it's just a design decision that ultimately goes to waste.

OKW, I liked their fuel/scavenge idea but alas. Seems best thing to do with the faction is a hyper aggressive early game, craptacular mid game, best late game. Has a cool "take and hold the line for dear life" vibe, or make them similar to old USF for people who want an aggressive only faction. Would be pretty sweet to watch USF and OKW duke it out in that fashion.

I sorta agree that as Soviets, you dont feel like you that much of a numerical superiority to launch multiple attacks (something the Soviets were great at, look into the Deep Battle Doctrine). It feels very 1:1 more or less.

It doesn't help that microing on the attack with multiple units is more demanding and punishing than controlling a smaller group of 'better' units. I'm not sure how you could make it easier on the Soviet player unless you make their unit costs lower.

I used to main the USF but the Axis meta, esp. the long range Super Tank Destroyer meta, made me go back to the Soviets who seemed more capable of fighting Axis late game. I wish the Americans were more artillery focused and got something beefy like the Jumbo as a default unit.

Brits i'm not a fan of the emplacements either. I think it encourages a playstyle I think doesn't fit the game.

OKW I have the most issues with. Seems too much of a powercreeping faction without enough downsides or risks to balance things out.