Give Assault Grenadiers Faust

I think they would be a more viable option in serious games and less of a meme unit if they had panzerfaust.

Mp40 volks have the same Weapon right now, the same panzerfaust and people are even critical of whether they like mp40 volks, I think this can work and be balanced with some fine tuning.

Faust Should Require t1/t2

To prevent spam out of the gate, Sprint should require Tier 1/Tier 2. This way if you spam them you will not be able to sprint around from minute 0.

Anybody like this idea? It would be cool to have more 5 man squads as Ostheer and more infantry units to compete with grens.

Nah the whole point of the Ass Grens is that it's a risk reward unit, I get what you're saying with Ostheer having 5 man squads but it's meant to be a risky strat, sacrafice some at snare for more powerful anti infantry unit early game.

Nah the whole point of the Ass Grens is that it's a risk reward unit, I get what you're saying with Ostheer having 5 man squads but it's meant to be a risky strat, sacrafice some at snare for more powerful anti infantry unit early game.

The Risks
-Locking In a commander
-CQB unit: vulnerable to wipes, Harder to avoid Mgs, Does not scale as well lategame
-No At capacity
-May bleed heavily in tough fights
-May not do much if outnumbered and unable to close distance
-less efficient at capping and fighting simultaneously

The reward
-A unit with nearly identical stats to the Volks with mp40s(higher reinforce, Callin cost, better vet, no muni buyin)
-Unit with sprint(3 ostheer commanders now give this globally making it less unique)
-No Training time
-Unit capable of 1v1ing lone squads earlygame

It should not be prohibitively risky to utilize this unit, its not good enough to warrant that.

I don't really see the problem with a t1/t2 faust.

The Risks
-Locking In a commander
-CQB unit: vulnerable to wipes, Harder to avoid Mgs, Does not scale as well lategame
-No At capacity
-May bleed heavily in tough fights
-May not do much if outnumbered and unable to close distance
-less efficient at capping and fighting simultaneously

The reward
-A unit with nearly identical stats to the Volks with mp40s(higher reinforce, Callin cost, better vet, no muni buyin)
-Unit with sprint(3 ostheer commanders now give this globally making it less unique)
-No Training time
-Unit capable of 1v1ing lone squads earlygame

It should not be prohibitively risky to utilize this unit, its not good enough to warrant that.

-CQB unit: vulnerable to wipes, Harder to avoid Mgs, Does not scale as well lategame

1.) It is a 5 man squad so it is less vulnerable than Panzergrens.
2.) They have sprint and doesn't need to be stationary to fight, so they are in fact a good
counter to Mgs.
3.) They don't scale amazingly into the late game, but if they are used properly in a defensive
way to flank attacking troops, throwing their really good grenades, and also to chase retreating
squads they are still a strong unit.
4.) Furthermore, even if this were not the case it doesn't matter. As the Soviet Scout Car or the
M20 does not scale very well, but they are still widely used units because of their capacity to
significantly change the balance of power in the period they can initially be produced.

-No At capacity

1.) With the combination of their sprint, shooting on the move, and grenades they are really
effective at wiping or forcing off anti-tank guns before needing to retreat which can serve vital
at role in some engagements.

-May bleed heavily in tough fights

1.) Don't they have the same reinforce cost as normal grens, because at that point they wouldn't
bleed any more than the standard infantry which is hardly heavilly.

-May not do much if outnumbered and unable to close distance

1.) Of course, that is the tactical counter to the unit, it would be horribly unbalanced and
unskillful to have a unit that can run across an open field and then beat multiple squads which
represent a much greater amount of manpower together, instead of utilising true sight to flank or
ambush.

-less efficient at capping and fighting simultaneously

1.) Dependent on the capture zone, if it is one which has a lot of objects which block line of
sight meaning that the unit can only be seen in CQC then it would be more efficient

The reward

-A unit with nearly identical stats to the Volks with mp40s(higher reinforce, Callin cost, better vet, no muni buyin)

1.) Different faction so it is irrelevant, as units need to be seen in the context of how they
synergise with the rest of the faction.
2.) They come out much earlier than MP40 Volks, so they have a much greater impact when they come
onto the field.

-Unit with sprint(3 ostheer commanders now give this globally making it less unique)

1.) Yet sprint on a CQC unit which is more durable than Panzergrens is arguably more useful

-No Training time

-Unit capable of 1v1ing lone squads earlygame

1.) And midgame if used correctly



I love Assault Grenadiers, I use them often and have great success with them.

But they shouldn't be used as the core of your army, as they don't scale as well as normal grens, and having all your troops with one effective range limits the versatility of an army.

Instead, I used them as a support unit only getting one, one to flank and disrupt support weapons, preventing flanks on my MGs as their dps is to high up close to give one or two squads enough time to wipde an mg, as well as, a way of rapidly winning engagements and wiping squads by flanking enemy infantry fighting my grens.

However, if they were given a faust they would be too versatile, as it thier lack of it which keeps them blanced.

It prevents them being spamed which would be a massive issue, especially against usf. Because blobed Assault Grens are easily able to overwhelm riflemen; providing an overwhelming fuel advantage, and light Vehicles serve as the punishing counter to such a blob.

-May not do much if outnumbered and unable to close distance

1.) Of course, that is the tactical counter to the unit, it would be horribly unbalanced and
unskillful to have a unit that can run across an open field and then beat multiple squads which
represent a much greater amount of manpower together, instead of utilising true sight to flank or
ambush.

Shock troops say hi.

Shock troops say hi.

And people think shocks are useless as is.

No one uses assgrens for a reason and that reason is not because they are "fine".

Ass grens are trash units, coz its bad designe.

I whole heatedly agree that they should be given fausts and that would make them instantly viable again (otherwise you spam tellar mines and pray). I mean if we are looking at other things in that commander I'd like to just call in the damn half track without the Pgrens inside. I find that halftrack could be useful if I didn't have to dump so much MP to get it out.

I agree with their lack of utility in late game. The best way to fix this is update their veterancy perks, no need to give faust.

Why ? For a faction as OST a 6 men squad sprinting with snare would simply be OP.
The reason it isn't used is that
1) it has no late game AI scaling
2) the doctrine hardly synergize with the faction. The ass grens would imply that you will skip tier 2 in favour of tier 1, use grens with faust as long range fighter and use ass grens for cqb, as in any case panzergrens are just better for utility and performances and if you build tier 2 you'd better stick to them.
But is impossible to skip tier 2 as stug comes too late for you to not get swarmed by enemy lights without pak..
That's why the ht with panzergrens could be replaced with a puma call in.

Getting a puma call in in second slot and buffing ass grens performances/combat veterancy would make the doctrine and ass grens far more viable.

Amazing. 55% of current voters think Ass Grens are fine right now.

It never ceases to amaze me how incredibly biased and unreasonable people in the COH2 community can be.

Or maybe it's because they don't realise Ass Grens are horrible because they've never seen anyone use them?

It never ceases to amaze me how incredibly biased and unreasonable people in the COH2 community can be.

34 votes (atm) is a pretty small sample size to draw any conclusions about the community.

If anything its probably a reaction to the title of the thread, which IMO is the worst possible choice for an ass gren change. Snares are already borderline too common, and they are a cqc assault squad. Shocks, commandos, tommy paras all don't get snares.

Now they are much better at their job, but they also cost more and come later. I think ass grens problem is they are balanced around being a cp0 assault squad, and they were OP as hell for a time pre-WFA. I think they should be moved back a cp or two, and be buffed to a closer level to the other cqb squads.

Smoke grenades would be awesome too.

34 votes (atm) is a pretty small sample size to draw any conclusions about the community.

If anything its probably a reaction to the title of the thread, which IMO is the worst possible choice for an ass gren change. Snares are already borderline too common, and they are a cqc assault squad. Shocks, commandos, tommy paras all don't get snares.

Now they are much better at their job, but they also cost more and come later. I think ass grens problem is they are balanced around being a cp0 assault squad, and they were OP as hell for a time pre-WFA. I think they should be moved back a cp or two, and be buffed to a closer level to the other cqb squads.

The only way you can change Assault Grenadiers to being better is exactly this, they shouldn't be a 0 CP call in because they are indeed balanced around this idea.

They could get a bit of a vet buff, and a smoke grenade. But I agree with the fact there is already too many tank snares available to everyone. Having a squad that can deal with infantry effectively at close range and also scare off a tank? it could get silly.

Amazing. 55% of current voters think Ass Grens are fine right now.

It never ceases to amaze me how incredibly biased and unreasonable people in the COH2 community can be.

Or maybe it's because they don't realise Ass Grens are horrible because they've never seen anyone use them?

Pretty much this.

Show Spoiler

I think thats a good point, they could be more effective for 90% of the game if there wasn't a risk of them being broken from minute 1.

I also think it is important that they are very good bc they are one of 2 unique parts of the Mechanized commander. The stug E isn't very good and They are not very good so mechanized is below average.

Regarding your comment on CQB infantry with a faust, see Volksgrenadiers with mp40 upgrades they are respectable not OP.



-Improve vet:Current:Vet 1 10% Received accuracy, 25% sprint cd. Vet 2: 25% CD, 29% RA. Vet 3: 40% accuracy, 25% nade range.

What Vet should change(Post suggestions)? This idea seems popular right now. The numbers at least are pretty high with even a boost at vet 1. Subjectively, I often see their productivity stalling in the mid game when kills slow and so does vet gain.

Perhaps a grenade improvement could help them reach higher vet? I think this is one reason why guards became better this patch.

-Improve Utility: Grenades mostly suck, but good vs buildings(regular nades probably as good or better though majority of the time and situations), Sprint is very good, So ends the utility

Options: adding the faust, adding smoke nade, Adding a regular grenade.

-Change timing: Drasticly change the units timing and impact
Ideas: Come at 1 CP, Copy Volk upgrade concept on grens(So you can retask them not callin more),

Comparables, shocks come at 2 cps with smoke and have debatable impact, would hard counter ass grens unless they are elite(even so may struggle vs shocks).

Artillery officer comes at 1 cp? or two? (Forgetting): Has smoke, Mortar strike, Better RA, no sprint, 2 combat buffing abilities(1 for him 1 for buddies).

I think redesigning them is the highest risk way to change them, maybe the greatest reward but Clear parameters are needed for success. Especially their role- Should they be a way to skip tech, supplementary cqb infantry, An elite cqb infantry squad, A utility squad, A commander squad.

Mostly I see Ass Grens picked when Ost really wants to reserve a house for its HMG, since Ost is the only faction in the game which needs T1 to produce mainline infantry.

Hon3ynuts gave the perfect summary - hopefully it'll get acted upon in future patches (if there are any?).

the thing is, are assault grenadiers supposed to be a support addition to the army (like shocks or falls) to be used alongside grens or are they suppose to have the ability to replace grens and treat them as main line infantry if the player goes that doctrine.

If ther supposed to have an support role then no fausts but if they a designed to act as main line infantry too then yeah ther guna need fausts

After stug E got gutted to non existance (Weapon nerf, role nerf, price nerf, hp nerf) maybe they could actually make Assgrens good. Far too niche pick.