fixing okw taking form vcoh

icendiary granade are need (at least eraly) cause they dont have anti garrisons, thats why when they get mp40 they lose them, this makes the mp 40 upgrade a tactical choice not a no brainer

Incendiary or WP grenades should be moved to SP. Having easy access anti-garrison/anti-cover is problematic.

Incendiary or WP grenades should be moved to SP. Having easy access anti-garrison/anti-cover is problematic.

so SP become anti garrison, repair, anti inf ,sweep, build mines , anti tank , stun, build units ? why not make them vcoh elite pg ?

so SP become anti garrison, repair, anti inf ,sweep, build mines , anti tank , stun, build units ? why not make them vcoh elite pg ?

read the spoiler on SP

read the spoiler on SP

i read it but withput contest i just relate to live SP , with the spolier that would be ok

1- Make T1 HQ spawn with medics. Make the reinforce been the thingy to upgrade.

2- Make T3 a 2 tech time thing. T3 now cost 1/3 and spawns without weapon and only Ober/JPIV. Upgrade cost 2/3 and unlocks PIV/PV.

... That is why OKW Sturmpioneers drop 3x healing packs for 30 muni.
At T0.

It's not like they NEED T1 Medical Truck

... That is why OKW Sturmpioneers drop 3x healing packs for 30 muni.
At T0.

It's not like they NEED T1 Medical Truck

It's one extra thing to micro nd one extra thing to pay munitions for. Not other faction has to manually do this in the same manner. Brits can do it in the field, and just hit a button, for 20 munitions you have a medic squad for life. Ambulance does both, no munition cost there and just does it, no micro needed.. Soviets got meds at base, and OST can build medics at base, or anywhere (or usually at my base when i play OKW lol).

OKW should, in my opinion have access to medics both at their HQ and the medic HQ.. or have to make a choice on which to take. Forward Retreat Point, or Medics at the Med base. One locks out the other, but you SHOULD have a choice to do it at your home base.


OKW SHOULD have medics available at their base without having to pick a different tech because NOBODY else has to. (Asymmetrical balance aside, this makes or breaks a game when you got 5 man squads walking around with 30% hp )


I'd agree to most of the initial changes, I just have a bone to pick w/ the Infrared Truck. Mostly in team games this thing is so much value, the map hack is crazy... I'd propose it's changed to be like EVERY other recon item in Coh2 where you must pay munitions to activate it for a set period of time. We say tank hunters receive this change, Special Weapons, all recon planes cost munitions (including the brit ones that you get from COmmand) and yet OKW get a sweet ass search light to see what you're doing.. everywhere? specifically in team games its so difficult to fight when someone knows where all your shit is.


Moving Obers sooner is interesting, I like the idea because they're not that strong without their LMG's and they'll unlock them later with tech while keeping the flavor of having an eltie unit on the field to support you. They'll get some earlier vet, fight some units that aren't vet3, or tanks yet.. I find my obers easily get sniped whenever they come out. The 4 man team who likes to lay down w/ their LMG and hug each other is just asking for a mortar shell (not sure if they've had received accuracy nerffed but I always notice I haev to babysit my obers).

An mp40s upgrade for incendiary nades is just as much a tactical decision.

Personally I believe balancing efforts should try to eliminate the need for such crutches as incendiary nades. I still maintain that the lava nade is a kludge of a solution and actually prevents OKW from exploring any other measure for garrisons.
I mean USF has never had stock access to flames and they have to sidetech for nades and smoke while having to go up against mg42s.

Mind you I've always suggested that Sturms and isgs have access to stock smoke as well. You can't explore changing up volks nades without improved smoke access. At least the isg has it now.

And USF has got the new mortar that was DEFINETLY a kludge of a solution...
What's the issue with lava nade, it is actually something unique and adds flavour and versatility that okw needs, it's surely not underpriced and now it's even "dodgeable".

If okw had something like pineapple + mortar it would be much more powerful as wipe nades and free anti garrisons would be more strong, and would be another mortar faction.

Smoke on sturm would be OP AF, at least if stock: starting smoke on a starting unit ? No defense against sturm rush.

Isg smoke was a good change, but that freaking thing has to gain some aoe, i need 5 barrages to even drop 2 models on a garrison.

And USF has got the new mortar that was DEFINETLY a kludge of a solution...
What's the issue with lava nade, it is actually something unique and adds flavour and versatility that okw needs, it's surely not underpriced and now it's even "dodgeable".

With the timer? It's definitely different than it was. When I was talking about those ideas this was before it had a timer (and before firestorm doc had mp40s.) As far as I was concerned the flame nades without a timer would've been perfect for an smg squad making an assault on a garrison/emplacement/enemy position.

With the timer, volks don't really have a damaging grenade and just a cover/garrison denial tool. Which is alright. You can eat the explosion and move without a lot of damage done. I just think the normal grenade fits a squad of rifle infantry well, and the (old? or either?) flame nade is great as a tool for a CQC unit.

A lot of my opinions stem from the idea that I think OKW should have a lot of expensive munitions abilities in the early game, (fausts, nades, mines, etc) but not have strong upgrades (lmgs) and reliable infantry AT (panzerschrecks) until lategame. My views on OKW are pretty deviant (and outdated) from the last few patches and still originate from the condition OKW was in in 2015.

And by this, I mean I think OKW's ENTIRE design hinged on their resource conversion. The reduced income is popularly referenced, but converting resources is what really made them resource starved. The choice to rush fuel or munitions starved you of the other. The problem at the time was you really only needed munis to get your volks schrecks, unless you were going for the basewipe artillery with, was it 700 munis stockpiled?

So if you can understand my perspective, when the idea of giving volks fausts came up, I thought the idea would be OKW could be pressured into wasting all their fuel converting to munitions.

If okw had something like pineapple + mortar it would be much more powerful as wipe nades and free anti garrisons would be more strong, and would be another mortar faction.

True, but IMO the mortar for OKW (and USF) should be in the form of a mortar HT. Mortars as an early/midgame unit costing fuel works for the WFA factions.

Smoke on sturm would be OP AF, at least if stock: starting smoke on a starting unit ? No defense against sturm rush.

As long as it cost a lot of munitions, I disagree. Albeit OKW enjoys repair pios from mechanized, SPs are always split between many roles. I've never been adverse to the idea that SP smoke could be locked behind a truck setup or something of the sort.

Isg smoke was a good change, but that freaking thing has to gain some aoe, i need 5 barrages to even drop 2 models on a garrison.

Agreed. IMO I think the ISGs just don't work as stock units for both WFA factions though. Mortar HTs are more suitable for their timing, fuel use, and mobility.

All in all I've pretty much resigned myself that the game will never be in the state I'd hope it could be in. The last few patches have cemented in changes that I feel obscure any possibility of that.

Remove OKW from game, its fix all stuff

Remove OKW from game, its fix all stuff

form your post history im not surprised of this reply

form your post history im not surprised of this reply

Maybe my playercard say more, then you

Maybe my playercard say more, then you

i don't want to link my steam account to the forum i like my privacy but i let you know i play all faction but before the first okw rework ( that means before op volks + sherk) i had only bought usf and okw and played mostly 4v4 then during sales i bought the other faction and started playing 1vs1 2vs2 with usf (cheese) brits (oh yea easy wins when they came out , dreaed centaur wiper) and ost (the good old flame mortar and tiger commander opopie + mech you could not go without mech)then the game broke so i stopped then came back and here is the cycle of coming back and leaving (now i'm back lets see if the mods keep the good work)

why don't you give volks 3 mg42's?
oh, giving sturmpios some aswel would ATLEAST make them useful, maybe thogeter with the shrek upgrade?


Kappa

why don't you give volks 3 mg42's?
oh, giving sturmpios some aswel would ATLEAST make them useful, maybe thogeter with the shrek upgrade?


Kappa

mp 40 are the same as ppsh ........ (they would just be ass greens , do you see a lot of op ass grens ?)

mp 40 are the same as ppsh ........ (they would just be ass greens , do you see a lot of op ass grens ?)

wtf are you even saying dude?

i would rather they make the mp40 upgrade stock instead of the STG upgrade, make the HE nade default and the flame nade behind the MP40 upgrade (this converts the volks to counter garrisons and CQB fighting but with a trade off (the STG offers little in the way of "trade offs" and the MP40 isnt good enough to warrant getting a shittier grenade instead of the flame nade

i would love for the schwewre to come earlier and cheaper BUT have a side grade that is required for the AA gun as well as the panther and KT tech and obers LMG
this would mean obers come earlier to take the weight off of the volks and give them time to vet before allies reach critical mass, but not be too strong (LMG), also gives spec ops a nice niche by allowing the STGs more room to pick over the LMG and the panther fits in nicley there too
this would also mean the P4 comes out a bit earlier giving it a bit of room to warrant its large cost

i would rather they make the mp40 upgrade stock instead of the STG upgrade, make the HE nade default and the flame nade behind the MP40 upgrade (this converts the volks to counter garrisons and CQB fighting but with a trade off (the STG offers little in the way of "trade offs" and the MP40 isnt good enough to warrant getting a shittier grenade instead of the flame nade

i would love for the schwewre to come earlier and cheaper BUT have a side grade that is required for the AA gun as well as the panther and KT tech and obers LMG
this would mean obers come earlier to take the weight off of the volks and give them time to vet before allies reach critical mass, but not be too strong (LMG), also gives spec ops a nice niche by allowing the STGs more room to pick over the LMG and the panther fits in nicley there too
this would also mean the P4 comes out a bit earlier giving it a bit of room to warrant its large cost

Ahahahahhahahahah.
Are you serious ?

Oh god i'm crying for too much laughing... ok let me list a few points from your post, just to make sure i understood everything perfectly:
1) Volks nondoc being a cqb unit is totally legit, but the faction has another early cqb unit right from the start.
THIS OBVIOUSLY because of the widespread "Muh coh1 perfect game evah and volks had mp40 there" totally ignoring different faction design and units in different games, as well as costs and intended roles.
The only upgrade that would make volks truly complementary to sturms is being made doctrinal...apparently because why not ?

2) The "HE" grenade is weak AF (TRUE POINT), and your solution to it, instead of a proper buff (that would make it perfect as sturm can use flamethrower and volks get a good wiping granade as they don't need anti garrison) is to give volks the shitty grenade that was already removed as it was useless and made okw killable within min 3 by mg spam.
Meanwhile Feuersturm would have a flame grenade (anti garrison), a flamethrower (antigarrison) and a flame tank (anti infantry/garrison)...

3) Mp40 is trash (TRUE POINT, how would you call an upgrade that makes a more expensive squad (volks mp40) be straight up worse both in utility and raw performances to cons ppsh ?), so the solution is to force it down players throat

4) Volks getting a no brainer upgrade is not ok, rifles, IS, grens and so on are ok.
All range improvements, present from the very moment this game has been relased are suddenly an issue.

Ahahahahhahahahah.
Are you serious ?

Oh god i'm crying for too much laughing... ok let me list a few points from your post, just to make sure i understood everything perfectly:
1) Volks nondoc being a cqb unit is totally legit, but the faction has another early cqb unit right from the start.
THIS OBVIOUSLY because of the widespread "Muh coh1 perfect game evah and volks had mp40 there" totally ignoring different faction design and units in different games, as well as costs and intended roles.
The only upgrade that would make volks truly complementary to sturms is being made doctrinal...apparently because why not ?

2) The "HE" grenade is weak AF (TRUE POINT), and your solution to it, instead of a proper buff (that would make it perfect as sturm can use flamethrower and volks get a good wiping granade as they don't need anti garrison) is to give volks the shitty grenade that was already removed as it was useless and made okw killable within min 3 by mg spam.
Meanwhile Feuersturm would have a flame grenade (anti garrison), a flamethrower (antigarrison) and a flame tank (anti infantry/garrison)...

3) Mp40 is trash (TRUE POINT, how would you call an upgrade that makes a more expensive squad (volks mp40) be straight up worse both in utility and raw performances to cons ppsh ?), so the solution is to force it down players throat

4) Volks getting a no brainer upgrade is not ok, rifles, IS, grens and so on are ok.
All range improvements, present from the very moment this game has been relased are suddenly an issue.

Sturms role gets diverted from being a cqb unit as the match progresses and mines need layed, tanks repaired, and rockets need fired, by the time that they are pressed into different roles volks should be there to take the mantle.

I didnt playe vcoh a whole lot so im not drawing inspiratiom from that, but from the idea of making choices. When do you NOT get the STG package for volks? If you dont have the munitions... Full stop. Thats not a choice, its like the old 2cm upgrade for the 222, its an inevitably.
IF they got mp40s as stock it gives a choice of refinement and better capability in urban areas if needed.

2. I never said not to buff the normal HE nade, sinply that in its pitiful state ontop of mp40s being a worse choice than STGs its a shitty upgrade path.
As for fire storm having too many flame.weapons... Well thats kinda the point... If you look at the underused conscript support tactics you will see it has many conscript flavoured abilities, Similarily lufftwaffe support offers an entire commander of air support. Theres nothing wrong with thematic commanders.

And okw has changed alot, as has the factions it fights. Maxim spam is not nearly as scary as it used to be and a BUFFED version of the grenade wouldnt necessarily do poorly.

3.mp40 is seriously underpowered, making the fact that its taking up a doctrine slot even worse. Its the m42 AT gun of small arms hands down but as a core component of the faction it might actually get a much needed buff AND more use. Plus it adds the option to diversify and break the blobability of volks (and yes, the allies doom blobs need adressed as awell)

4. Dont put words in my mouth. Dont. Allied infantry needs looked at as well but this here thread is about the OKW and of you read my previous reply you would see i had other suggestions to try and help OKW tackle that... Mess outside of battle of the blobs.

T2 Obersoldaten and MP40 Volks sounds great. I'd ditch the STG entirely rather than put it in Feuersturm though.

I'd also be inclined to make Obersoldaten MG34s require two trucks set up rather than specifically the Schwerer. It'd make going both Battlegroup and Mechanized before Schwerer a little less painful.