[Wehr/Soviet] Snipers relationship.

Before going any further lets define what each sniper job is. Soviet sniper teams main job is to counter team weapons while the Wehr sniper main job is to counter other snipers.

Now to the topic:

With these "new" double soviet sniper teams strats it called to my attention how Wehr and Soviet snipers react to each other. It feels like Soviet snipers fire 1/2 sec too fast for the Wehr sniper to counter them or the incendiary explosive round is bugged. Investing 360 manpower to counter one model of the sniper team and then get rekt by the other model because the ability to counter the sniper team misses/doesn't fire in time is kind of frustrating.

What do you guys have to say about this? How would you balance their relationship?

Personally I would make soviet sniper teams fire 1 secound later and change the flare ability (soviets already have too many flares, something new and fresh is needed) to a version of the RE's supressive fire but make it good and have the same range as the sniper can fire, reason being to help support infantry.

What do you guys have to say about this? How would you balance their relationship?

Personally I would make soviet sniper teams fire 1 secound later and change the flare ability (soviets already have too many flares, something new and fresh is needed) to a version of the RE's supressive fire but make it good and have the same range as the sniper can fire, reason being to help support infantry.

Well in the sovjet campaign in the sniper mission (and some other missions too i believe) the sovjet sniper has an ability to suppress multiple squads. Maybe they could replace the flares with that ability. Then again the sov sniper might become just a 2-model rip off of the ost sniper and it might be OP ^^.

To losing a sov sniper need much skill.

..yes you read that right.

Well, the obvious solution here is to simply make it instant again so that you can counter snipe Sov sniper teams.

Pre-DPB Ost snipers could re-cloak fast enough to not get counter sniped (in green cover) but re-cloak speed got standardized (which is good imo).

Now, Sov snipers can counter Ostheer snipers for free while the ost sniper can't do that anymore. Doesn't seem right.

Counter sniping requires too much attention and micro, why don't you do what every OST does and run it down w/ a scout car?

That or run double turbo mortars, keep him dancing while you let your mortars auto-fire and he'll have to micro the shit out of them, while you are free to tear up the map.

Other than that, I don't think making one sniper superior to the other is a good solution. They should just make the soviet and OST snipers stats mirrored with some fun vet abilities. That way it's really just who gets the jump on who, and not " Well it's a 2 man team, im boned " or " Oh I can't use my sniper, cause my sniper can't counter snipe, derp, yeah "

OST sniper being able to counter snipe both Soviet ones would be unfair, since he already has an advantage in everything else (especially the crazy rate of fire) except for vet ability

Well, the obvious solution here is to simply make it instant again so that you can counter snipe Sov sniper teams.

Make the incendiary explosive round instant would be broken, the soviet player has to have a chance to react.

Counter sniping requires too much attention and micro, why don't you do what every OST does and run it down w/ a scout car?

That or run double turbo mortars, keep him dancing while you let your mortars auto-fire and he'll have to micro the shit out of them, while you are free to tear up the map.

In higher level play you can't really chase snipers with scout cars because the soviet player always keeps something protecting the sniper against armor/infantry and investing 480 manpower to counter a sniper team means that you'll have less squads in the field and thus have less map presence or your mortars will be flanked and stolen.

OST sniper being able to counter snipe both Soviet ones would be unfair, since he already has an advantage in everything else (especially the crazy rate of fire) except for vet ability

Ofc I wasn't saying that one wehr sniper should counter two soviet snipers, but one should be able to counter one soviet sniper team.

Well in the sovjet campaign in the sniper mission (and some other missions too i believe) the sovjet sniper has an ability to suppress multiple squads. Maybe they could replace the flares with that ability. Then again the sov sniper might become just a 2-model rip off of the ost sniper and it might be OP ^^.

With my suggestion the soviet sniper wouldnt be a rip off of the wehr sniper because it would have lower rate of fire (price for having two models) and would be able to support infantry in critical situations versus stronger squads by supressing them at range.

Make the incendiary explosive round instant would be broken, the soviet player has to have a chance to react.

No, he doesn't. Ost snipers get insta wiped as well.

Idk i never use my sniper to counter SOV sniper is just a very risky move including the fact that he dont lose his sniper and OST is fully dead.

A very nice add on for the OST Sniper is change of his vet ability., i am thinking about a Stationary phase but with Increase ROF., The Incendiary round is nice but i don´t feel it very strong, normally don´t enough time to do anything with the ability.

Ofc I wasn't saying that one wehr sniper should counter two soviet snipers, but one should be able to counter one soviet sniper team.

But that is exactly what I mean. A single Soviet sniper team still should have at least one other advantage than the flares (facing four man squads instead of six doesn´t count)
Becoming counter-snipeable, that would be gone.

Idk i never use my sniper to counter SOV sniper is just a very risky move including the fact that he dont lose his sniper and OST is fully dead.

A very nice add on for the OST Sniper is change of his vet ability., i am thinking about a Stationary phase but with Increase ROF., The Incendiary round is nice but i don´t feel it very strong, normally don´t enough time to do anything with the ability.

The entire purpose of the incendiary round ability is to give a chance to wipe squads or, in other words, give a chance to counter soviet sniper team. Changing that ability would hurt wehr sniper survivability.

About that stacionary ability, as proven countles times anything that makes your units stacionary is a no go. Your sniper would be rushed and killed in no time.

The entire purpose of the incendiary round ability is to give a chance to wipe squads or, in other words, give a chance to counter soviet sniper team. Changing that ability would hurt wehr sniper survivability.

About that stacionary ability, as proven countles times anything that makes your units stacionary is a no go. Your sniper would be rushed and killed in no time.

I thought incendiary shot was like any other incendiary device that it was for area denial. Using it to counter another sniper just sounds very odd to me.

I thought incendiary shot was like any other incendiary device that it was for area denial. Using it to counter another sniper just sounds very odd to me.

I said incendiary round but it is more like an explosive round that "stuns" and sometimes kills 2 models.

The entire purpose of the incendiary round ability is to give a chance to wipe squads or, in other words, give a chance to counter soviet sniper team. Changing that ability would hurt wehr sniper survivability.

About that stacionary ability, as proven countles times anything that makes your units stacionary is a no go. Your sniper would be rushed and killed in no time.

Maybe.

the stun ability can kill both SOV sniper models? never had a chance to test it ., usually never deploy sniper to countersnipe soviet sniper.

Wehr sniper fights 6 man squads.
Soviet fights 4 man squads.

Maybe.

the stun ability can kill both SOV sniper models? never had a chance to test it ., usually never deploy sniper to countersnipe soviet sniper.

I don't know what the probability to get a double model kill is but it isn't worth risking it. Just shoot the first time normaly and then use the ability but be careful because it feels like it might be broken because sometimes the explosive shot misses or it takes ages to fire.

Little update on this thread:
I have never noticed this until a game I did today, it seems that the soviet sniper team is a bit more broken than what I thought. I was doing a game against double sniper teams as wehr and my opponent was using flares to spot my sniper. So now it is absolutely impossible to counter sniper teams unless your opponent isn't used to play with snipers and/or you catch the snipers out of position with lmg grens or 222 (and even then due to the double model they might still get away).

The only solution I see for this issue is to reduce significantly the rate of fire of soviet snipers, after all they are fighting 4 models most of the time, and change the ability for something more useful like suppressive fire even if it has the same suppression rate as hmg's or make the wehr sniper ability instantaneous.

Grenadiers with g43s actually do great against both varieties of allied sniper. The moving accuracy of g43s lets them actually close/chase the sniper(s) while dealing damage.

Snipers cant soft retreat v g43s effectively unless they can stay cloaked.

As if you didn't need more incentive to play a G43 commander......

The soviet sniper iirc already is balanced around 4 man squads. If i recall it shoots 4 4 shots slower than the ost sniper shoots 6. I think the OP has things wrong, the ost sniper is all about bleed while the soviet sniper should be about countering the OST sniper.

Is it possible to reduce the range or something of the soviet sniper perhaps if the spotter gets killed to help reinforce ambushing the ost sniper vs trying to duel?

The soviet sniper iirc already is balanced around 4 man squads. If i recall it shoots 4 4 shots slower than the ost sniper shoots 6. I think the OP has things wrong, the ost sniper is all about bleed while the soviet sniper should be about countering the OST sniper.

Is it possible to reduce the range or something of the soviet sniper perhaps if the spotter gets killed to help reinforce ambushing the ost sniper vs trying to duel?

It might be slower but the bleed on 4 man squads is much more meaningful as you have to retreat when at 2. What would work is if the ost sniper would kill the sniper man/woman every time so it cant be countersniped back but leaving the spotter time to retreat so the Soviet sniper could be soft countered in this way. Not sure if this is technically possible.

I really struggle with soviet snipers - using a 222 normally meets a mine or skirts too close to the snipers big brother - the penal squad with sticky satchels. G43's are probably the most reliable counter Ost has at least and even then you need 2+ gren squads as most players using twin snipers.