[UKF] Lets talk about the churchill crocodile.

Arguably the most over powered unit in the game right now, once it hits the field you need a lot of firepower to take it down but the problem is the damn flamethrower that counters AT guns without any real efford from the player (get in range and let the flamethrower do it's thing). One similar tank to the churchill crocodile is the Kv-8 that at least can't fire both guns at the same time which in result makes it a bit more balanced.

My suggestion would be to restrict the churchill crocodile to only one commander (Special weapons fits the theme I guess) and create one ability for it to saturate an area with flames but on the other hand remove the autofire of the flamethrower. If that doesn't prove enough maybe reduce its movement speed just enough so it can't move around too fast.

What are your thoughts on this unit? How do you think it would bring something new/fresh and valuable to the game in a tactical level? How would you make it more reasonable to deal with?

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What are your thoughts on this unit? How do you think it would bring something new/fresh and valuable to the game in a tactical level? How would you make it more reasonable to deal with?

Imo it would be allot easier to balance all flamethrower units if they did not have DOT.

DOT could be an ability that they player had to use.

The croc has received a number nerf in the last patch and I have not played enough with unit to form an informed opinion.

it need no skill with this BS unit...2 AT guns or fireflys behind it..and it denied any counter...no idea why such unit is in the game...very fast and mobile, high armor and hp and kill every infantery in sec ...

I guess it received some nerfs this patch, but yeah, with a FF behind it, its gg (sure its a sh@t ton of resources, but still...
This is exactly where target tables should come in and make it weak against paks and rakettens, while keeping its strenght against other stuff.

Things that work for me:

-PAK40 at maximum range,
-Faust it., always you can, give you time. to finish the job.
-Engage with Medium / heavy anti tank
-Mines, Mines and more mines!., Specially that nasty from the SDKFZ 221. is a dead tank.
-Always try to avoid direct confrontation with that tank And all the surrounding bullshit (we are talking about Mortar pit emplacements, Escorting infantry, Sherman Firefly , etc

because the Synergy between those factors are awesome., May OKW troops can overcome around all that bullshit for their Superior numbers and Offensive oriented equipment., But OST don´t have that luck need to be 100% tactical.

Its huge hp means u must a totally noob to lose it

I don't think the croc is a problem by itself, although it is really powerful. I think the problem is it can be backed up with a firefly. As Ostheer you are completely screwed if they get both since you don't have a 60 range TD and paks will just be melted.

Is there a particular game mode we're talking about here? I rarely see a croc used in 1's or 2's.

Croc is a lot of resources, so is that firefly. So you must have some advantage over your opponent or he's already winning so hard this is just the swift payment for allowing him to get this out of hand.

2 Pak's and some Stugs is pretty much how you take care of this. Sure, there's a firefly back there but you can easily field 2-4 STUG's for the price of his combination. The Croc will get pounded by STUG's at max range like the Paks, and by the time he can close in to make the Firefly useful, the Croc is defiantly going to be backing away from the situation, or probably dead (faust, i mean if he's busy flaming an AT gun he wont be flaming the faut, or vice versa).

Target Weak point his ass, and laugh as STUG's not only rip thru the croco, but can totally rape a Firefly. Firefly's are only good at max range engagements, get them to tango w/ more than 1 tank at a time and they have to back away from a fight... and lets be honest Stug's are amazing right now.

Best price for performance for a tank killer, and they just increased it AI capabilities and lowered the cost of the MG while still allowing it to punch holes in any medium tank, and reliably hit heavies (so few heavies anyways that they have to ever deal with).

...and lets be honest Stug's are amazing right now.
Best price for performance for a tank killer, and they just increased it AI capabilities and lowered the cost of the MG while still allowing it to punch holes in any medium tank, and reliably hit heavies (so few heavies anyways that they have to ever deal with).

Actually the Stug was better off before the patch. TWP got nerf.

The hmg has 4.3 DPS at range 40 which is not that impressive and it actually does not have the sight to fire at that range.

StuG III Ausf G
The StuG G’s ‘Target Weakpoint’ ability's potency is being reduced, in return the StuG G machine gun is being boosted to have better use in defending the vehicle against infantry.

Target Weakpoint changed from 15 second main gun disabled to a 5 second stun
Target Weakpoint damage from 160 to 80
MG 42 upgrade from 50 munition to 30
*MG 42 range from 35 to 40

So you're calling a 5 second stun a nerf? Were you not around when the STUG's used to have the stun shot and it was nerffed into the main gun disabled? STUG's could chain shot it, and disable any allied tanks to the point they were wrecked. 5 seconds is a long time to be stuck in the field while 2-3 stugs are firing at you.

So you're calling a 5 second stun a nerf? Were you not around when the STUG's used to have the stun shot and it was nerffed into the main gun disabled? STUG's could chain shot it, and disable any allied tanks to the point they were wrecked. 5 seconds is a long time to be stuck in the field while 2-3 stugs are firing at you.

I am not calling it a nerf the moders are:


StuG III Ausf G
The StuG G’s ‘Target Weakpoint’ ability's potency is being reduced,

but imo TWP didn't get nerf'd, how is a stun a nerf? what just because it deals less damage? hah. When you got gun disabled you ran. Now, you can't run.

Is there a particular game mode we're talking about here? I rarely see a croc used in 1's or 2's.

Croc is a lot of resources, so is that firefly. So you must have some advantage over your opponent or he's already winning so hard this is just the swift payment for allowing him to get this out of hand.

2 Pak's and some Stugs is pretty much how you take care of this. Sure, there's a firefly back there but you can easily field 2-4 STUG's for the price of his combination. The Croc will get pounded by STUG's at max range like the Paks, and by the time he can close in to make the Firefly useful, the Croc is defiantly going to be backing away from the situation, or probably dead (faust, i mean if he's busy flaming an AT gun he wont be flaming the faut, or vice versa).

Target Weak point his ass, and laugh as STUG's not only rip thru the croco, but can totally rape a Firefly. Firefly's are only good at max range engagements, get them to tango w/ more than 1 tank at a time and they have to back away from a fight... and lets be honest Stug's are amazing right now.

Best price for performance for a tank killer, and they just increased it AI capabilities and lowered the cost of the MG while still allowing it to punch holes in any medium tank, and reliably hit heavies (so few heavies anyways that they have to ever deal with).

You forgot the 2 6pounder..

If its late enough for that, you could rocket strike it?

Its huge hp means u must a totally noob to lose it

No more health than the King Tiger. At least for now.

EDIT: In fact, it's less. King Tiger seems to have 1280 Health vs Crocodile's 1080 Health.

Reminder on the Croc's latest changes.

Churchill Crocodile
* Flamethrowers standardized to range 32
* Flamethrowers damage from 9/12 to 6/7
* Population from 18 to 20
* Health from 1400 to 1080
* Armor from 240 to 290
* Rotation rate from 35 to 30

the numbers on it have been nerfed all round and ingame it certainly feels very different - you can't throw it into multiple AT sources without it dying on the way out. survivability with ~300 armor and 1080HP is almost identical to the tiger now.

I'm wondering if multiple centaur is competitive (speed buff is very welcome), or maybe even the regular churchill. that is not to say the croc is weak - it's still being used and is effective.

I remember when the Crocodile first came out, and it was insane. It's been nerffed so many times since..

Regular Churchills are great, but you need to back them w/ actual AT. Cause their main gun is crap vs Panthers, Tigers, King Tigers, Elephants, Jags.. its even a bit scary to duel a Stug at times.

but imo TWP didn't get nerf'd, how is a stun a nerf? what just because it deals less damage? hah. When you got gun disabled you ran. Now, you can't run.

it's not a stun

Here we go again...

I guess we should nerf the crocodile into obscurity, I know it's a lot to ask for axis to try and use flanking, landmines, or tactics.

We all know those were never used in the war, only by allies.