OKW is absolutely trash now, rebalance this asap!

RW performance is currently very inconstant ranging from useless to OP making the unit unreliable.

Imo the unit should lose the ability to move while cloaked while receive a number of buffs in response times and tenacity.

RW performance is currently very inconstant ranging from useless to OP making the unit unreliable.

Imo the unit should lose the ability to move while cloaked while receive a number of buffs in response times and tenacity.

+1, nice idea.

But beside this as already mentioned before, stormpios really need a change. In nearly every game you need at least one minesweeper. That means no shrek and most annoying no flamer, what makes the new firestorm doc not attractive. And to build a second sp is expensive. And not to forget, how hard an unlucky hit by mortar can be, cause of a 4 man squad. A weakness, all axis players share.

I will agree with you that the DLC problems were evident even in THQs days with DoW2, however, being as it may SEGA had the final word in CoH2's development and that's even why the game was delayed once SEGA acquired Relic. Same goes for it's expansions and overall balance after the game's release. There was no day 1 DLC for both Space Marine and DoW2, while there was for CoH2, same as Rome 2 Total War, both published by SEGA, further proving my point. And yes while not exactly so for DoW3 I believe the idea was to test the waters first, and had they made day 1 DLC the game would have even less players and more negative reviews than even now.

We will never know that problems faced by Relic during COH2's development, but I can make a educated guess that with the dwindling resources and fate of THQ, Relic struggled.

Once Sega had acquired Relic the game was likely pushed back to get COH2 in a 'shippable' state.

I highly doubt Sega have any direct impact on balance or design. What they can do is set a date to release some DLC and force unfinished / untested work to be released. However this was not the case with the WFA, they were all tested pre-release by a group players.

Day 1 DLC is more common now that it was before so it isn't always surprise that previous older titles did not ship with day 1 DLC.

+1, nice idea.

But beside this as already mentioned before, stormpios really need a change. In nearly every game you need at least one minesweeper. That means no shrek and most annoying no flamer, what makes the new firestorm doc not attractive. And to build a second sp is expensive. And not to forget, how hard an unlucky hit by mortar can be, cause of a 4 man squad. A weakness, all axis players share.

You touch many different issues here.
SP spam seem to be vaible currently.

SP seem to be OP for their time frame (similar to Penals), while losing much of their power the longer the game drugs (unlike Penals).

Imo feuerstrom doc has a number of issues like:
Hezter is not worth its price for its time frame and tech. In 90% of the cases you are better of waiting for PZIV. (lowering fuel by 10, while increasing Mp by 20 and adding 120Fu tech cost did not help the unit at all).

Incendiary munition are decent but one can only take advantage if one goes T1, it would be much better if they also become available to other units like Puma or stuka (or WP version for those units)

Opel blitz although not bad is simply lucking compared to other doctrinal reinforcement units. I would rather have 100/5 upgrade to sws trucks to an ostheer command bunker type truck.

Whell i tell that since brits come to game:

Brit basic infantry red cover > Volks in green.

GG!

I feel like Volks are pretty on-par with the rest of the standard Allied infantry. The five man count per squad is really nice and is something I think the Wehrmacht Grenadiers could benefit from, unless there's some unknown damage buff they receive to offset their missing unit model that I don't know about. Sturmgewehr is still good and fairly priced for what it does.

It's been said plenty of times in the forum posts I've read so far, but I'm inclined to agree that the OKW needs either a Raketenwerfer adjustment or another AT unit. It's true that everything the OKW needs they get right from the start, but that all quickly becomes obsolete once the Allies transition from light to medium/heavy vehicles and more specialized infantry. Panzerschreck on Pioneers is alright but really risky especially on a unit that's supposed to fulfill two huge roles simultaneously (AT and engineer). If they weren't so expensive I suppose it would be alright, but then again that would make them rather overpowered (anything less than three-hundred manpower for four Sturmgewehrs is stupid). Giving the Med truck access to a dedicated AT unit (like a Pak variant) would also mean there's more flexibility in choosing between Med and Armor truck, as right now it seems that most people just go straight for armor since the retreat point was nerfed.

Some of OKW's heavier stuff is still pretty damn expensive (Panzer IV, for instance) but overall I think the patch did the faction as a whole some good. If anything it's a step in the right direction because they do still have that "gimmick" vibe of Relic wanting them to be quirky and unique instead of smooth and natural.

This may be a "noobish" question (all of this coming from someone who sucks with the only two factions he plays) but why were they never able to build caches, and why can't they still? To me that's one of the biggest things holding them back. It would surely justify the huge fuel costs if they were able to build caches like every other faction, especially now that the cost has been bumped up by fifty.

This may be a "noobish" question (all of this coming from someone who sucks with the only two factions he plays) but why were they never able to build caches, and why can't they still? To me that's one of the biggest things holding them back. It would surely justify the huge fuel costs if they were able to build caches like every other faction, especially now that the cost has been bumped up by fifty.

I their original design they received something like 66% of resources but could convert muni to fuel and vice versa using the trucks if i recall. At some point this was ditched and they got 100% resources but they put up the price of everything to compensate. They also have scavenge.

I feel like Volks are pretty on-par with the rest of the standard Allied infantry. The five man count per squad is really nice and is something I think the Wehrmacht Grenadiers could benefit from, unless there's some unknown damage buff they receive to offset their missing unit model that I don't know about. Sturmgewehr is still good and fairly priced for what it does.

It's been said plenty of times in the forum posts I've read so far, but I'm inclined to agree that the OKW needs either a Raketenwerfer adjustment or another AT unit. It's true that everything the OKW needs they get right from the start, but that all quickly becomes obsolete once the Allies transition from light to medium/heavy vehicles and more specialized infantry. Panzerschreck on Pioneers is alright but really risky especially on a unit that's supposed to fulfill two huge roles simultaneously (AT and engineer). If they weren't so expensive I suppose it would be alright, but then again that would make them rather overpowered (anything less than three-hundred manpower for four Sturmgewehrs is stupid). Giving the Med truck access to a dedicated AT unit (like a Pak variant) would also mean there's more flexibility in choosing between Med and Armor truck, as right now it seems that most people just go straight for armor since the retreat point was nerfed.

Some of OKW's heavier stuff is still pretty damn expensive (Panzer IV, for instance) but overall I think the patch did the faction as a whole some good. If anything it's a step in the right direction because they do still have that "gimmick" vibe of Relic wanting them to be quirky and unique instead of smooth and natural.

This may be a "noobish" question (all of this coming from someone who sucks with the only two factions he plays) but why were they never able to build caches, and why can't they still? To me that's one of the biggest things holding them back. It would surely justify the huge fuel costs if they were able to build caches like every other faction, especially now that the cost has been bumped up by fifty.

Ostheer grenadiers have superior damage output per man, which offsets the extra model volks have. IIRC vanilla grens actually have better dps overall than vanilla volks, but vanilla volks are obviously tougher, especially against indirect fire, since they have an extra man.

Rak should be much more consistent, but not if it can still retreat and move while cloaked imo, because aggressive raks sneaking around cloaked can pretty easily take out damaged tanks when doubled up, even with the inconsistency they have right now.

I

Ostheer grenadiers have superior damage output per man, which offsets the extra model volks have. IIRC vanilla grens actually have better dps overall than vanilla volks, but vanilla volks are obviously tougher, especially against indirect fire, since they have an extra man.

Rak should be much more consistent, but not if it can still retreat and move while cloaked imo, because aggressive raks sneaking around cloaked can pretty easily take out damaged tanks when doubled up, even with the inconsistency they have right now.

do you really think an etra model makes them tougher against indirect fire?

like how can you even say thats a good thing when indirect fire is preceeded by inf rush.

WOW I HAVE 2 models left in squad, im so tough! thats an instant retreat in any inf engagement

the rng from indirect fire is ridiculous as well, soviet 120mmg still insta wiping and forcing retreats

Adding more models isnt the solution
actually making them be able to win inf engagement, increasing hp and reducing accuracy on mortars is

as it stands okw has no counter

In regards to the topic, I think OKW needs a linear tech structure for the faction to work better. A lot of things would have to be shuffled around, but I believe it would be a step in the right direction, as it would fix so much of the timing issues the faction's been getting. The build time on the Luchs is ludicrous, and the price to backtech for a specific unit to fill a role are too restrictive. Medics, for example, which is a staple for any faction, for an OKW MechHQ opening is extremely expensive. If a player built T1 and rushed T3 realized he needed rocket artillery, the price to backtech is also restrictive, especially since by the lategame where rocket artillery shines best, the other units the structure offers are obsolete.

My suggestions: make the techtree linear by requiring players to step through T2 to get T3.

HQ: Volksgrenadiere, Sturmpionere, Kubelwagen, sWS Halftrack, Konigstiger (after all sWS are built)
T1: MG34, Puppchen, leIG 18, 251/17 Flak
T2: Panzerfusiliere, Panzer II Luchs, 234/2 Puma, Uhu IR 251
T3: Panzer IV J, Jagdpanzer IV L70, Panther, Stuka zu Fuss

Panzerfusiliere are knocked down from 6-man to 5-man, G43 upgrade gives 3 instead of 4.
MG34 Obersoldaten replace the Panzerfusiliere as doctrinal units.
IR StG Obersoldaten call-in replace the IR StG44 ability.

Kubelwagen can siphon resources like it was originally designed to give the unit more staying power and increase OKW resource income in the absence of caches.

Adjust costs/popcap accordingly.

This would give OKW:
1) a linear tech structure that eliminates the need to find cheeky ways to delay certain units
2) more accessible elite infantry
3) no more PzII rush ruling the battlefield or surprise early Stuka in teamgames
4) no backteching issues, because no backteching

I'd say that the FRP nerfs were too heavy, and should perhaps be brought down to 33% longer reinforce time. This obviously affects all WFA factions, but I feel OKW relies the most on it.

Additionally, if OKW becomes too similar to OKH, then rework OKH. That faction is so very old school and feels lacking in personality. The archaic design and the pointless Battle Phases makes the faction feel clunky in comparison to some of the other factions. Shuffle some units around for timing. Perhaps Battle Phases can unlock new abilities for OKH units instead of just being a barrier to building tech structures? Give OKH Pioneere rifles and justify giving OKW Sturmpionere MP40s to reduce their [Sturms] early game dominance ? There are so many things one can do.

Im really about to stop streaming this game and uninstall

Please do but its not like anything you say is serious, sadly. There are so many things just objectively wrong with everything you just said that you should feel honored anyone is even reading it.

Pardon my attitude. Please at least make it seem like you play other factions too. Or contribute to finding a solution instead of complain.
inb4 i get called brainless allied fanboy "spreading lies"

In regards to the topic,...

Imo the homogenization of faction should not continue especially since one can find solution to fix design and balance issues.

If the OKW trucks offer no real advantage being placed out side than can simply be replace by building.

If losing a truck is crippling for that faction and with the current bonus they offer there is little reason to place outside base.

That is why I made the suggestion where their presence outside base becomes useful but losing does not become crippling.

Imo the homogenization of faction should not continue especially since one can find solution to fix design and balance issues.

If the OKW trucks offer no real advantage being placed out side than can simply be replace by building.

If losing a truck is crippling for that faction and with the current bonus they offer there is little reason to place outside base.

That is why I made the suggestion where their presence outside base becomes useful but losing does not become crippling.

What I suggested would make no difference to whether or not being placed outside base sector is worth it. The only changes are order to make them in and which buildings build what.

Maybe we need some optimism here so I'm gonna say that I haven't had as much fun with okw as I have now after patch for a long time.

I think most people are simply used to go Mechanized and rush a Luchs.
But for me that always played Medic HQ, this patch is a blessing.

If somebody is interested, here is my buildorder:

1. Volks
2. Volks
3. Volks
4. Volks (I noticed that you absolutely need 4 squads as with 3 you're getting busted against allied inf hordes)
5. Get a sWS truck (If you get every Volks squad the second you reach 250MP, you should be able to cue the sWS before the last Volks is even finished)
6. Medic HQ in base or VERY defensive
7. Raketenwerfer
8. Flak HT (This is the most important unit in the whole build)

- After the Flak research the medic upgrade. Now there is a time window where you have to play aggressively with your Flak (that means moving a lot). ALWAYS keep at least 1 (better 2) Volks nereby to Faust anything that is coming close. Also your sturms need to be close as well to repair any shot the HT eats. Keep the Raketen behind the HT and place mines if you have the mun.

9. LeIG to counter support weapons if there are any and to harass
10. (OPTIONAL) MG in a building to prevent flanks (This is usually possible as you are floating a lot of MP)
11. Get the 2nd sWS Truck
12. Build a defensive Flak HQ near your MG in the building or/and the cutoff point
13. Wait for the JP4.

Important key tactics in this build are to always keep your Flak HT moving once enemy troops are pinned/suppressed. You can't overextend but you have to keep the majority of VPs at all times as this build is rather defensive compared to what allies could do. The HT can eat at least 4 light tank shots but only 2 AT gun hits before it dies. So once you see an AT gun shooting at you, immediately smoke and retreat to a defensive position where you wait for the enemy to come while the HT gets repaired (after about 5 seconds in repair, it will survive another AT gun shot again).

What you have to do to win is to not let the light tank come close your Flak HT. That is why fausts are so great. A fausted T70 has to fall back immediately because of your Raketenwerfer and also the Flak itself which can be really harmful to light vehicles as well.

Any tanks coming will face your JP4. You do not need an AI tank, you have your flak and 4 Volks squads. It is not about wiping every enemy unit but just to suppress them and make them retreat. Once the enemy falls back you use your Volks to cap everything that is possible.

I'm mainly a 2v2 player. After the update we basically always meet Sovjet players. We're seeing a considerably higher amount of double sovjet players than before.

What bothers me is that the army very much feels like cheese and consists of:
1) Maxim spam
2) PPSH spam
3) penal spam (that still considerably outperform anything OKW has)
4) Guards rifle spam

Along this you have 120mm mortars, katusyas, T70 etc.

It very much feels like you're constantly struggling and it appears as if the sovjet faction is more forgiving, i.e. losing something isn't that punishing.

Meanwhile Volksgrenadiers feels rather bad and it feels as if you're forced to have 3-4 units bounced up to stand a chance against the penal horde.

Meanwhile the ISG is just horribad at doing anything than nudging any maxims. The best use is the smoke.

The squishyness of Walking Stukas is tbh also laughable :/

I'm not terribly miffed by the nerfs to the heavy tanks though.
I'm just tired of seeing the constant horde spam already, from the sovjet players.

Problem with OKW is that their inf is not ment to be frontline inf in the first place. Sure volks have STGs but they are still barraly support unit not offensive one.

OKW dont have normal cqc unit. While Sturms can deliver a punch they are very frague, expensice and they have 1000 tasks to do and loosing them is a pain.

OKW MG34 awaible way too late in my opinion, considering Penals\rifles\tommies can usually out-perform volks.

Pretty much all DPS comming from OKW light armor, but again there are always hard counters by the time its arriving on the field.

What OKW truly needs is normal DPS inf, which is not glass cannons.
I would for reall agree to replace Obersoldaten with Panzerfusiliers and move obests as doc call-in unit with LMG34 and for special opperation with STGs. Because at least you would get normal inf, since by the time obersts hit the field they are also out-performed due to vets of allied units.

Obers need to come out earlier. I actually really liked their most recent ch anges, but I think they REALLY require being fielded earlier as a result.

The flakhq side tech to unlock panther and p4 I still think is very necessary for OKW if only for improving their tech/unit pacing and options.

Also a token 100 mp 20f upgrade to unlock the KT should be necessary.

If somebody is interested, here is my buildorder:

1. Volks
2. Volks
3. Volks
4. Volks (I noticed that you absolutely need 4 squads as with 3 you're getting busted against allied inf hordes)
5. Get a sWS truck (If you get every Volks squad the second you reach 250MP, you should be able to cue the sWS before the last Volks is even finished)
6. Medic HQ in base or VERY defensive
7. Raketenwerfer
8. Flak HT (This is the most important unit in the whole build)

Although I play 4v4 my build is nearly identical to this. Which is the biggest gripe people have with playing OKW. Its boring cause you need the same build everytime. One change is if my team mate is OKW I make more volks or an early rak if he is making a med truck lose by. To stay offensive as long as I can.

The Flak HT is the integral piece. It gains/defends territory early and its anit-air helps late game. Had Vet 5 on Port of Hamburg from downing planes.

Once tanks come out, I usually make 2 pios and give them zooks. They can repair tanks and also push away anyone who is diving for your weak tank. Then I make an artillery piece while they are not repairing.

How about adding a G43 package to Volks? Add 2 G43s to the squad at the cost of 60 munitions. Perhaps replace the gimmicky STG-44 package with this one or make this upgrade doctrinal, maybe Overwatch or Breakthrough (if Breakthrough then move Panzerfusiliers to Overwatch doctrine, they kinda fit the theme right?)

IMO, OKW also needs a non-doctrinal Sturmtiger to wipe (or at least scare away) those annoying Allied infantry blobs. Making the aim time shorter could discourage Allied players from blobbing. What do you think?

I've been saying this for ages and continue to say it: upgrades and veteran bonuses are NOT the answer to inherently unviable units.

You have to make the BASE, default, vanilla unit truly THREATENING, just like Allied baseline units are truly threatening.

Volksgrenadiers deal no damage, and Grenadiers lose their first model and 1/4 of their damage in the first second of every engagement -- no threat whatsoever.