[DBP] Royal Engineer Doctrine feedback thread

What are the precise bonus that you recommend that are not "too much"?

Currently the aura gives:
-20% reload
-20% cooldown
+20% accuracy

That clearly depends on the time frame. These bonuses are clearly too high at CP 2 they could be less of an issue at CP 10.

For instance a CM Panther needs vet 3 to give +20% accuracy +20% reload and that is to vehicles only...

That clearly depends on the time frame. These bonuses are clearly too high at CP 2 they could be less of an issue at CP 10.

For instance a CM Panther needs vet 3 to give +20% accuracy +20% reload and that is to vehicles only...

Assume that the command vehicle comes at 10 CP*. What bonuses would you give to the Command Vehicle?

The Command Panther is a fully-functional Panther+, which also gets mark target and extra passive sight on top of everything.

* because there is no other realistic way to get it earlier anyway, unless you are stomping noobs

Assume that the command vehicle comes at 10 CP*. What bonuses would you give to the Command Vehicle?

The Command Panther is a fully-functional Panther+, which also gets mark target and extra passive sight on top of everything.

* because there is no other realistic way to get it earlier anyway, unless you are stomping noobs

out of the top of my head.
Infantry/support weapons.
0.9 RA
0.9 suppression
1.1 accuracy
1.1 CD
cover status

Vehicles
1.1 reload.
1.1 accuracy

Another 10% bonus via active timed ability costing mu.

But imo auras should should scale with veterancy since it allow to better balance the unit.

out of the top of my head.
Infantry/support weapons.
0.9 RA
0.9 suppression
1.1 accuracy
1.1 CD
cover status

Vehicles
1.1 reload.
1.1 accuracy

Another 10% bonus via active timed ability costing mu.

But imo auras should should scale with veterancy since it allow to better balance the unit.

Would you EVER sacrifice a vehicle to get what you just posted?

Would you EVER sacrifice a vehicle to get what you just posted?

If am spamming UKF infatry easily. The cover status alone is massive bonus to static UKF infatry.

The vehicle can be as cheap as an AEC who's DPS in late game is not important while it can still snare.

The vehicle suffers only DPS penalties (-50% accuracy +100 reload ) that have little impact in unit like AVRE or AEC(wanted for snare in late game) or even FF (high accuracy alpha strike with tulips) or Churchill (that can serve as meat shield) if those penatlies in you opinion are too high simply replace the CM upgrade with command valentine and balance that unit as you like.


Compared CV at CP2 with artillery officer that has to pay munition for 1.15 accuracy bonus for infatry and 0.85 reload for vehicle while the unit itself is weaker than a grenadier or an lmg grenadier.

Would you EVER sacrifice a vehicle to get what you just posted?

A centaur, sure.

The vehicle can be as cheap as an AEC who's DPS in late game is not important while it can still snare.

The vehicle suffers only DPS penalties (-50% accuracy +100 reload ) that have little impact in unit like AVRE or AEC(wanted for snare in late game) or even FF (high accuracy alpha strike with tulips) or Churchill (that can serve as meat shield)

That's why timing isn't an issue with Command Vehicle - if you want an early-mid game Command Vehicle then you *have* to either tech AEC or sacrifice your very first tank which comes a lot later than 2 CP. Command AEC is considerably more squishy than other command tanks and prevents you from diving after other light vehicles which is why you get it in the first place and is more likely to die early or survive in the late game.

Nobody would ever use a Command Firefly (lol 16 second reload) or AVRE now that it doubles petard mortar recharge. So now you are stuck with using Churchill (good luck getting that fast) or using your very first Cromwell or Centaur and have to support it with other AT since it can never 1v1 another tank ever again. If you want someone to sacrifice their first tank (it's never going to contribute much beyond it's aura) then that aura has to be worth it because you are knowingly conceding the armor advantage to your opponent by doing that.

The other option? Wait until the late game and downgrade an AEC that showhow survived or make a command tank with tank #2 or 3 and at that point why bother if the aura isn't good? Nevermind that Tommys and Sappers are getting nerfed in the DBP and you can't just spam 4-5 Tommys at start and win with brute force anymore.

A centaur, sure.

The centaur in the DBP is actually rather good - like I'm shocked how much the slight speed boost makes it usable. Although it could theoretically work since you'd have to be relying on 6 pounders regardless if you go Centaur with your first tank or command vehicle since Command Cromwell would get owned by PZ4 or anything really. But honestly I like the new Centaur enough that I don't think I'd want to concede the AI damage for the aura.

Again, why is the UC still locked out of being a command vehicle?


If a player only wants the command vehicle for reliable recon, let them. Don't force people to go AEC and play a specific way. More options, not less.

The thing with the command panther and panzer is they don't sacrifice much to achieve their aura. Wheras the Command vehicle ensures that vehicle is never going to be used in combat again. If I recall, Cooldown and reload is mostly negligible on infantry but really good on say, tanks.

So you sacrifice 100%- reload and -50% Accuracy to make another tank shoot 20% faster and 20% more accurate? Feels like it just forces everyone to always command vehicle the AEC. Which contradicts the commanders logic of having Stand Fast as well.

I like the idea of coh1 how having a command tank buffs up an armor company, but making a command tank straight up useless in combat doesn't feel satisfying at all to drop that much fuel on.

The thing with the command panther and panzer is they don't sacrifice much to achieve their aura. Wheras the Command vehicle ensures that vehicle is never going to be used in combat again. If I recall, Cooldown and reload is mostly negligible on infantry but really good on say, tanks.

So you sacrifice 100%- reload and -50% Accuracy to make another tank shoot 20% faster and 20% more accurate? Feels like it just forces everyone to always command vehicle the AEC. Which contradicts the commanders logic of having Stand Fast as well.

I like the idea of coh1 how having a command tank buffs up an armor company, but making a command tank straight up useless in combat doesn't feel satisfying at all to drop that much fuel on.

Compare the Command PZIV and normal PZIV vs any meduim tank and you will see what you have sacrificed. In addition the CP for command tanks is allot later.

Calculated the DPS bonuses from CV on a vicker, a sniper or 2 Ro Eng with dual piats and you will see what you gain from a command vehicle from CP2.

Or simply test the unit in the DBP and see the results.

Again, why is the UC still locked out of being a command vehicle?


If a player only wants the command vehicle for reliable recon, let them. Don't force people to go AEC and play a specific way. More options, not less.

That's because a UC becomes completely useless from 5 minutes on. That's too cheap a carrier to provide an aura, and we don't want people to start playing whack-a-mole with command UC's.

A centaur, sure.

True; the centaur isn't really affected by the reload penalty. However, the centaur is still affected by the +100% cooldown and -50% accuracy penalties.

True; the centaur isn't really affected by the reload penalty. However, the centaur is still affected by the +100% cooldown and -50% accuracy penalties.

"Command Vehicle
We are readjusting some of the most extreme risk-reward elements of the ability to allow it to be integrated in more strategies.

Command Vehicle no longer affected by a speed penalty or a received accuracy penalty. Still retains the -50% accuracy and the +100% reload time modifier."

There is not mention about CD penalty in patch notes.

By vet 1 Centaur can use its ability which I suspect is not affected by the penalties.

In the end of the one should compare what DPS the CV has lost to what DPS all the units around it have gained...

Compare the Command PZIV and normal PZIV vs any meduim tank and you will see what you have sacrificed. In addition the CP for command tanks is allot later.

Calculated the DPS a vicker, a sniper or 2 Ro Eng with dual piats and you will see what you gain from a command vehicle from CP2.

The command PZ4 sacrifices its anti-tank capabilities to still have really good anti infantry capabilities. So it's basically like an ostwind.

The aura is pretty good if you use it on your whole army, but that goes without saying just like any aura in the game. Thing is, the tank itself is worthless and having to go AEC contradicts the commander which are both glaring problems. I can see your complaint that it comes in at 2 CP though, and that's probably where the problem lies.

It has to make the tank crappy because it comes so early and the aura makes british infantry strong, but if the command ability came later it wouldn't have to nerf the crap out of the tank and would probably make the ability feel good to use.

The command PZ4 sacrifices its anti-tank capabilities to still have really good anti infantry capabilities. So it's basically like an ostwind.

The aura is pretty good if you use it on your whole army, but that goes without saying just like any aura in the game. Thing is, the tank itself is worthless and having to go AEC contradicts the commander which are both glaring problems. I can see your complaint that it comes in at 2 CP though, and that's probably where the problem lies.

It has to make the tank crappy because it comes so early and the aura makes british infantry strong, but if the command ability came later it wouldn't have to nerf the crap out of the tank and would probably make the ability feel good to use.

and that is why i suggested that aura scales with veterancy or be supplement by a timed ability similar to ostheer artillery officer.

That's because a UC becomes completely useless from 5 minutes on. That's too cheap a carrier to provide an aura, and we don't want people to start playing whack-a-mole with command UC's.

You're right, a UC is useless from 5 minutes on, which is a good reason to give it a purpose with the ability to become a Command Vehicle.

Do you really think a fragile UC would survive on the front lines mid/late game even with an aura? It's completely counterable if a player chooses to use it in such a way.

You're right, a UC is useless from 5 minutes on, which is a good reason to give it a purpose with the ability to become a Command Vehicle.

Do you really think a fragile UC would survive on the front lines mid/late game even with an aura? It's completely counterable if a player chooses to use it in such a way.

That's because the whole point of the commander shouldn't be about whether you decided to field a UC or not.

It should be about an aura that should be viable if you stick it on any vehicle of your choosing.

UC scalability issues should be addressed separately.

Would you EVER sacrifice a vehicle to get what you just posted?

I love how you dismantle the silly proposals with functional questions.

The logic becomes: Yeah I will cripple my 160 Fuel tank destroyer for 20% reload speed on the Cromwell. Then I will proceed to move my slower Firefly in the formation because the only way to push that aura bonus reload speed is to be in the tank-blob.

That's because the whole point of the commander shouldn't be about whether you decided to field a UC or not.

It should be about an aura that should be viable if you stick it on any vehicle of your choosing.

UC scalability issues should be addressed separately.

The whole point of the commander? There shouldn't be a linear way any commander forces you to play. If a player wants to make the current fragile UC a command vehicle they should be able to. It's simple risk/reward.

A UC as a command vehicle was OP in the past because A) the recon was free and a no-brainer, and B) it applied the aura to emplacements where it was safe from counter-play. Both have been nerfed, and rightly so. Your preference on how a commander "should" be used isn't a good enough reason to limit player options.

The whole point of the commander? There shouldn't be a linear way any commander forces you to play. If a player wants to make the current fragile UC a command vehicle they should be able to. It's simple risk/reward.

A UC as a command vehicle was OP in the past because A) the recon was free and a no-brainer, and B) it applied the aura to emplacements where it was safe from counter-play. Both have been nerfed, and rightly so. Your preference on how a commander "should" be used isn't a good enough reason to limit player options.

Have you ever played with a command UC and double UKF sniper in teamgame? have you even tested a vickers with command aura?