Gewehr 43s in tiger docs

Jump back to quoted post14 Nov 2017, 16:19 PM__deleted__

I love how everyone leaves everything to the others.

Phrases like something needs to be done or something is OP, fix it or rebalance the game are one of the best.


Only better phrases are to start blaming the mods team for not fixing the issues in they way they wanted them to be fixed ( without giving feedback at first)

Guys come on, how you want a serious discussion when you can't even start a thread with some basic thoughts about rebalancing or at least a proper argumentation why it is not balanced at current rate.

Then you wonder, why can't we keep serious balance discussions.

So, pls

Jump back to quoted post14 Nov 2017, 16:23 PMvasa1719

I think all things need changes, gev43, stug, skill planes adn synergy with tiger/tiger ass.
You just spam grens with gev43 (that come at 1 cp) into p4/stugs, in late game you just rush this blob with tanks + skill planes or tiger ass, and GG.

Jump back to quoted post14 Nov 2017, 16:22 PMMr.Smith

You claim that Lightning War synergy is broken (mostly because Skill planes and call-ins are broken, btw), and thus, Lightning War should not exist as a doctrine.

Why don't you start out by explaining which OST doctrines you consider "normal" and "well designed".

Jump back to quoted post14 Nov 2017, 16:25 PMMr.Smith

So, it's probably just the skillplanes and tiger ace that need to get nerfed?

Jump back to quoted post14 Nov 2017, 15:37 PMvasa1719

This synergy looks liek to strong, every time its grens gev43 spam + units from t3 and tiger ass or skill planes, somthing need remove, coz synergy to strong.

Jump back to quoted post14 Nov 2017, 16:21 PMvasa1719

Whut ?

Jump back to quoted post14 Nov 2017, 18:09 PM__deleted__

A proper argumentation would look similarly to this:

Hi,

I have found lighting war too strong at the moments mainly because of the ability synergy is too strong.

The Tiger alone is very potent as a heavy tank, because it is a) one of the best generalist tanks in a game and b) requires no teching at all. This tank alone is not OpieOP or root of all OST problems but put together with SCAS ability that is able to literaly vaporise any tank in the ground zero zone makes the doctrine OP. In my opinion Stuka Close Air Support is overperforming ATM and should be toned down. Giving Allied player a change to evade the impact zone by adding an ability delay would solve many problems in my opinion.

Multiplied by G43s that allow Ostheer Grenadiers to go toe-to-toe with 1Bar Riflemens and Penals and by recoup losses that gives Ostheer player Ostruppen swarms this doctrine surely becomes one of the best in the game. Putting all other Ostheer doctrines into shadow, removing faction versatility and playability.
It also forces Allies factions to go the same build order over and over again - forcing them to abuse Allied Cheese in order to compete with the doctrine.

My suggestion would be to at the start decrease SCAS damage by 20% and add 6-10 second delay to all loiters in order to give the enemy an option to disengage before his tanks melt away.

If this nerf alone is not enough to balance the doctrine and playtesting shows that more needs to be done then I suggest to increase Tiger fuel cost by 25% as long as the tier3/tier4 is built. The same will apply to all other call in heavy and medium vehicles, in order to get rid of call-in cheese.

This in my opinion will hit the doctrine rather hard and it wont need any more nerfs mainly because synergy of Tiger and SCAS are making the doctrine OP. Recoup losses isnt anything particulary OP alone,
so isnt the strategical movement. G43s are strong, but they are both hardcountered by vet3 Riflemen with 2 Bars at all ranges and by vet3 Penals and vet3 lmg IS at long range so counterplay surely is there.

Also I think that other doctrines that share the same fate -being OP and overshadowing other doctrines -
- should be rebalanced too, so both Axis and Allied cheese is removed and everyone will get opporunities and strategies to play with.

If we only nerf Ostheer A++ Doctrine we many quickly find out that now every Allied Faction outpowers Ostheer with its cheese - a thing we want to avoid.

There are my opinions, what do you think ?

Discuss,
Hector


This is what I consider a serious post which explain persons statements well and is a fertile soil for a fruitful balance discussion.

PS: I have also included my own opinions about the Lighting war doctrine in the Italic example post so feel free to talk about them too, as they are my opinion.

Cheers

Jump back to quoted post14 Nov 2017, 18:37 PMIntelligence209

An ostheer OP thread. Lol. Trust me, there are plenty of other mindless blobbs/cheese stats that are poisoning this game. And the allies have a lot more counters to blobbs. 4 man squad blobbs btw.

Jump back to quoted post14 Nov 2017, 18:09 PM__deleted__

A proper argumentation would look similarly to this:

Hi,

I have found lighting war too strong at the moments mainly because of the ability synergy is too strong.

The Tiger alone is very potent as a heavy tank, because it is a) one of the best generalist tanks in a game and b) requires no teching at all. This tank alone is not OpieOP or root of all OST problems but put together with SCAS ability that is able to literaly vaporise any tank in the ground zero zone makes the doctrine OP. In my opinion Stuka Close Air Support is overperforming ATM and should be toned down. Giving Allied player a change to evade the impact zone by adding an ability delay would solve many problems in my opinion.

Multiplied by G43s that allow Ostheer Grenadiers to go toe-to-toe with 1Bar Riflemens and Penals and by recoup losses that gives Ostheer player Ostruppen swarms this doctrine surely becomes one of the best in the game. Putting all other Ostheer doctrines into shadow, removing faction versatility and playability.
It also forces Allies factions to go the same build order over and over again - forcing them to abuse Allied Cheese in order to compete with the doctrine.

My suggestion would be to at the start decrease SCAS damage by 20% and add 6-10 second delay to all loiters in order to give the enemy an option to disengage before his tanks melt away.

If this nerf alone is not enough to balance the doctrine and playtesting shows that more needs to be done then I suggest to increase Tiger fuel cost by 25% as long as the tier3/tier4 is built. The same will apply to all other call in heavy and medium vehicles, in order to get rid of call-in cheese.

This in my opinion will hit the doctrine rather hard and it wont need any more nerfs mainly because synergy of Tiger and SCAS are making the doctrine OP. Recoup losses isnt anything particulary OP alone,
so isnt the strategical movement. G43s are strong, but they are both hardcountered by vet3 Riflemen with 2 Bars at all ranges and by vet3 Penals and vet3 lmg IS at long range so counterplay surely is there.

Also I think that other doctrines that share the same fate -being OP and overshadowing other doctrines -
- should be rebalanced too, so both Axis and Allied cheese is removed and everyone will get opporunities and strategies to play with.

If we only nerf Ostheer A++ Doctrine we many quickly find out that now every Allied Faction outpowers Ostheer with its cheese - a thing we want to avoid.

There are my opinions, what do you think ?

Discuss,
Hector


This is what I consider a serious post which explain persons statements well and is a fertile soil for a fruitful balance discussion.

PS: I have also included my own opinions about the Lighting war doctrine in the Italic example post so feel free to talk about them too, as they are my opinion.

Cheers

Jump back to quoted post14 Nov 2017, 18:09 PM__deleted__

Multiplied by G43s that allow Ostheer Grenadiers to go toe-to-toe with 1Bar Riflemens and Penals....

Cheers