WBP V1.3 Stuka

What can Katja or Panzerwerfer say xD

Katja dies to Fallshirmjagers in mere of seconds. All you need to do is to spawn them from a garrison near Katja and StGs will do the reast.

Bye, bye Katty, you will be missed

Katja dies to Fallshirmjagers in mere of seconds. All you need to do is to spawn them from a garrison near Katja and StGs will do the reast.

Bye, bye Katty, you will be missed

FG42
FallschirmjägerGewehr 42

I feel sorry KAPPA

Well I feel sorry for the balance patch as well, it looked promising until the same BS ideas that already failed once and rejected once will be rejected twice in a row.

Good news is, you can still play your mod as much as you want with your closest friends.

Stuka doesnt need to go to the frontlines in order to be used to its full potential, so please

Right, it doesnt need to go the frontline, because its already there. There is a called in the game called RANGE, you know?

Its optional to go to frontlines with Werfers and Katys. High Risk/High Reward. Its a CHOICE. Theres is no such option with the Stuka, it always needs to be close.

Stuarts and t70s don't deal 160 damage per shot, so they won't be one shotting the stuka zu fuss any more than they already do.

Right, it doesnt need to go the frontline, because its already there. There is a called in the game called RANGE, you know?

Its optional to go to frontlines with Werfers and Katys. High Risk/High Reward. Its a CHOICE. Theres is no such option with the Stuka, it always needs to be close.

Um, no. Werfers and Katys benefit from being closer to the frontline because it reduces rocket scatter. Stukas have pinpoint accuracy always and don't have fog of war scatter penalties so there is literally no need to ever fire from anything but max range.

Um, no. Werfers and Katys benefit from being closer to the frontline because it reduces rocket scatter. Stukas have pinpoint accuracy always and don't have fog of war scatter penalties so there is literally no need to ever fire from anything but max range.

MAX range is around 120 for wefer and stuka and 150 for kati. Judging from point of stanfing to center of aim.

At least that's how it seems from range map.


Do remember though that 120 range is a lot - most tank destroyers have 60 range (half of stuka range)


I would not say it is close to the frontline when firing

MAX range is around 120 for wefer and stuka and 150 for kati. Judging from point of stanfing to center of aim.

At least that's how it seems from range map.


Do remember though that 120 range is a lot - most tank destroyers have 60 range (half of stuka range)


I would not say it is close to the frontline when firing

Katyusha range is 200, pwerfer range is 160.

Even if it close in up to 160 range (btw pwerfer get oneshotted to and at max range is inaccurate AF anyway) to become accurate, it is still far away compared to other arty.

Um, no. Werfers and Katys benefit from being closer to the frontline because it reduces rocket scatter. Stukas have pinpoint accuracy always and don't have fog of war scatter penalties so there is literally no need to ever fire from anything but max range.

You are contradict yourself while fully admitting that it is an indeed beneficial option for other rocket arty to be close the frontline (and hardly very dangerous for the CalliOP). They can choose to sit back and bleed or come forward and wipe.

If there is a problem with the Stuka accuracy - which is a double edged sword anyway, as its easy to evade just by sidestepping or demonstrating your ultimate micro skills by NOT lining up your support teams in one line if you know there is/could be a Stuka nearby - fix the ACCURACY, not the durability.

You do not amputate a guys leg to cure his headache.

Simply make it have the same random rocket spread and . I guess this obvious solution curiously does not come to the mind of the mod team simply because with randomly dispersed rockets, double BAR/Bren blobbing would be suddenly far more dangerous since nobody can predict where the Stuka lands...

It is btw typical of the flawed approach of the balance mod - one one hand, Jackson receive massive health buffs, the heavy TDs receive damage nerfs which results that they cant 2-shot mediums or Jacksons anymore, nor they can one shot lights and halftrucks, but somehow the OKW gets the exact opposite treatment and somehow its perfectly fine that a 100 fuel short ranged rocket arty would be one shotted by any tank - or a lucky Katy or CalliOP salvo as all rockets do 80 damage each. Heck even mortar pits have the chance to wreck it.

Even more rocket arty spam behind TD wall is what I predict.

Katyusha range is 200, pwerfer range is 160.

Even if it close in up to 160 range (btw pwerfer get oneshotted to and at max range is inaccurate AF anyway) to become accurate, it is still far away compared to other arty.

Before we start talking about what is far and close after closing in, tell me the minimal range of katty and pwerfer - the ideal where you have best outcome.

Stuka has the best outcome at any range so 120 is the best outcome for it too

Just curious if we compare the rocket arty pieces this way

Cut range of the Katy to 120 then. Surely if they are to be equal in health pool for some so far undislosed reason, then surely they can be equal in range, too.

I am also curious about suggested methods to stop suicide T-34s wrecking your Stuka in one go. 80 fuel is nothing to the SOVIET in team games, but 50+100 fuel is still a heck of lot for OKW.

Every other artillery in the game, including Katyusha and Panzerwerfer which are squishy as fuck have to move to the frontlines to deal any damage.

Irrelevelant. Low risk / low reward or high risk / high reward. Your choice.

Walking stuka has the luxury at firing from max range, even in the fog of war, without this affecting its pinpoint accuracy.

Allrightie then, make it follow the same rules as other rocket arty then. Make it spread more, be effected by the fog of war, be effected by range.

OOPS. If I were to really solve I perceive to be the problem, I cannot blob anymore with double BARs behind Stonewall Jackson, since random spread Stuka is uneffected by sidestepping the blob... so let's come up with something totally unrelated...

Therefore, it's undue for the walking stuka to be any more durable than the forementioned artillery.

Because fck logic.

Before we start talking about what is far and close after closing in, tell me the minimal range of katty and pwerfer - the ideal where you have best outcome.

Stuka has the best outcome at any range so 120 is the best outcome for it too

Just curious if we compare the rocket arty pieces this way

I'm not there always counting in game meters, but I use katyusha at far more than 2x TD range for sure.
Pwerfer use range might instead be 120, but I really never used it much anyway, because tier 4 UP ostheer.

Allrightie then, make it follow the same rules as other rocket arty then. Make it spread more, be effected by the fog of war, be effected by range.

OOPS. If I were to really solve I perceive to be the problem, I cannot blob anymore with double BARs behind Stonewall Jackson, since random spread Stuka is uneffected by sidestepping the blob... so let's come up with something totally unrelated...

This +1, SO FKING MUCH THIS.... it could actually turn out to a decent tool and fck Mr.Smith blob

Give it scatter, make it cost 75...
Give it range, make it 160hp...
fixed

I'm not there always counting in game meters, but I use katyusha at far more than 2x TD range for sure.
Pwerfer use range might instead be 120, but I really never used it much anyway, because tier 4 UP ostheer.

I asked for minimal ranges of those artillery pieces, not your game play experience with their viability.

But thanks

Allrightie then, make it follow the same rules as other rocket arty then. Make it spread more, be effected by the fog of war, be effected by range.

Absolutely.

However, we don't have the luxury of changing everything at the same time. This is why we need to prioritize changes.

First we fix Brits, then we fix USF and. Finally, if relic still gives us the option to make a 2nd pass over OKW we continue with changing the Stuka and nerfing King Tiger.

December Balance Patch means December. Ideally, we want to leave all 5 factions with some new toys to play with (and not just the commanders), so that everybody is content with the changes. This is because, as you've already witnessed, patches are far and few between. This means we have to hold back from throwing a massive revamp wrench at one particular faction.

If you have trouble realising why Stuka is OP (and will remain OP), you are probably misusing it. Look up on youtube about how to properly aim the stuka.

Personally, the three primary goals for the DBP is:
- Force all 5 factions to use a combination of units to achieve their goals at each stage in the game (e.g., no late-game Vet5 Volks spam > all)
- Make all factions require comparable micro input at all stages in the game, so that there's actual depth involved (i.e., getting to Vet5 should not mean that you no longer have to micro your infantry engagements)
- Adapt faction core/commanders properly, so that each faction has at least 3 strong and valid commanders to choose from, every game (i.e., no Armor Company every single game, just because you picked USF)

Indeed like only 1 month left and maybe a week.

Not much time^^

What can Katja or Panzerwerfer say xD

And btw ability from the stuart is useless vs stuka?

Btw i think stuka still can shoot normal barrage and then use the flamebarrage while the normal barrage is on cooldown...

But yes you can't drive with your stuka close the enemy base (and eat some shots) and shoot in his base when he retreats. I feel sorry KAPPA

that's what's annoying no counter play for a stealth at gun if you really want to make it 2 ways fun make it have 162 hp (all the 160 hp mobile art) and when it's at 2 hp have engine crit always any sort of deep dive will kill it and even the troops (if they don't ,lower the rear armor) at least i can try to smoke or counter play it

You are contradict yourself while fully admitting that it is an indeed beneficial option for other rocket arty to be close the frontline (and hardly very dangerous for the CalliOP). They can choose to sit back and bleed or come forward and wipe.

If there is a problem with the Stuka accuracy - which is a double edged sword anyway, as its easy to evade just by sidestepping or demonstrating your ultimate micro skills by NOT lining up your support teams in one line if you know there is/could be a Stuka nearby - fix the ACCURACY, not the durability.

Exactly. It's beneficial for (currently) more squishy rocket artillery to put itself at "risk" at a ranges similar to Stuka max range whereas the now higher HP stuka has zero incentive to go closer than 120 range. Changing the durabilty puts it on equal footing where it still gets all the benefits of it's accuracy but at some additional risk of allied counterplay vs. status quo of getting all the benefits of better accuracy at max range AND higher durability.

I agree that fixing the accuracy makes more sense but the balance team tried that in the fall and apparently that change got shot down by the community so they are doing the next best thing that makes sense. I don't think most people would say pin-point accuracy is a double edged sword... good players will always aim the barrage where they think the units will be if they anticipate a dodge or retreat path.