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russian armor

The Metagame: HMG Spam

8 Aug 2013, 18:21 PM
#41
avatar of Cryptacide

Posts: 63

Just a few quick points, we are aware that HMG are fairly dominant in the current meta game, partly as a result of their durability. It is something we are hoping to resolve in the future.

Keep in mind though, a simple health decrease will only resolve that issue so long as the original crew retains the weapon. Once you recrew it with another squad, the weapon team will take on the new durability values of the crewing entities.

edit: perhaps a received damage modifier would be a better suggestion :P


This may be a dumb question, but, if you re-crew with say, a vet2 gren squad, does this mean the new mg squad will have increased durability?
8 Aug 2013, 18:54 PM
#42
avatar of Crells

Posts: 255

It would be too powerfull agasint the Maxim as hitting it head on from cover will not always mean a suppressed squad and then the Maxim would get destroyed.

The HMG42 on the other hand will only bi vunerable from teh flank as it insta suppresses, its an ok idea but imo it punishes the Maxim waay to much unless it's supression was buffed
8 Aug 2013, 19:42 PM
#43
avatar of Cyridius

Posts: 627



This may be a dumb question, but, if you re-crew with say, a vet2 gren squad, does this mean the new mg squad will have increased durability?


I think veterancy is a dynamic modifier, so if you were to recrew and they lose vet, they lose the benefits that came with it.
8 Aug 2013, 19:44 PM
#44
avatar of Cyridius

Posts: 627



Makes flanking and even direct assault effective from behind cover if you can close within the minimum range, thereby making HMGS ineffective at simply turning (while withstanding fire) and continuing fire.

You don't yet appreciate the genius of this solution.

And there is a precedent on RNades having minimum range.
I know it breaks the vCoH precedent, but I think this solution is tactically, statwise, and economically overall the soundest.

Think about it for a minute. Just one minute. Thats all I ask.


The minimum range isn't the issue. Getting on a support team's flanks isn't even that much of an issue. It's doable in many situations.

The issue is that it doesn't reward the player. Adding a minimum range fixes nothing, it just gives me another place to not be rewarded from.

If I can get up into the minimum range of that MG, it'll be no different to me getting out of its arc and wailing on it. Which I can already do. It just isn't effective.
8 Aug 2013, 20:50 PM
#45
avatar of Cryptacide

Posts: 63

Just as pqumsieh stated. A received accuracy modifier would be appropriate here. But, can that be directional? As in, a HMG making a soft retreat takes more damage getting shot in the back, or getting shot in the back from a flank. They do it with tanks, I don't see why it can't be done with infantry.
9 Aug 2013, 03:58 AM
#46
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

Just as pqumsieh stated. A received accuracy modifier would be appropriate here. But, can that be directional? As in, a HMG making a soft retreat takes more damage getting shot in the back, or getting shot in the back from a flank. They do it with tanks, I don't see why it can't be done with infantry.


The model of tanks is more complicated than infantry. Currently, infantry is and should be considered as one object whereas tanks have rear armour and frontal armour. In a sense, rear armour hits are also counted as crits that only do more damage.

A receive accuracy modifier for all crews should be involved regardless, along with reducing the number of men of both squads to 3 men. That way, crews aren't as silly as they are now.
9 Aug 2013, 10:21 AM
#47
avatar of Cyridius

Posts: 627

If you wanted to add directional damage to infantry, it would be a considerable frame rate hit with the extra CPU calculations.
13 Aug 2013, 22:49 PM
#48
avatar of Tetley

Posts: 187

I'd love to see all mg teams changed to 3 man squads and mortar and At guns changed to 4. That way spamming them should become less effective and flanking them might actually mean something as well as the German scout car would become a greater threat to soviet support teams.

I like the idea of lower the capture times of support teams however it wont make that much difference if still impossible to dislodge them from their positions.
14 Aug 2013, 03:00 AM
#49
avatar of pewpewforyou

Posts: 101

HMG spam is ridiculous, to the point that I rarely play anymore... Coming out the gate to see at least 2 MG42s waiting is just old and boring. I'm pretty much forced into getting a flaming clown car to deal with it, which leads to the same build order in almost every game. The OP is 100% spot on in all of his points. Nothing pisses me off more than perfectly flanking a HMG, then having that stupid thing keep spinning around and randomly setting up while my little fairy conscripts dance around it and plink away. Inevitably, one of the retards will auto seek cover or somehow run into the arc and get the whole squad pinned. Then I've wasted all of that time and effort for nothing.

So yeah, until there's a better solution in place, pardon me for not being thrilled to play this game. Another hint: my "brave" soldiers should stand back up after the gun is no longer shooting at them. They don't have to keep crawling around on the ground for 5 more minutes.
14 Aug 2013, 18:35 PM
#50
avatar of friedchicken

Posts: 50

HMG spam is ridiculous, to the point that I rarely play anymore... Coming out the gate to see at least 2 MG42s waiting is just old and boring. I'm pretty much forced into getting a flaming clown car to deal with it, which leads to the same build order in almost every game. The OP is 100% spot on in all of his points. Nothing pisses me off more than perfectly flanking a HMG, then having that stupid thing keep spinning around and randomly setting up while my little fairy conscripts dance around it and plink away. Inevitably, one of the retards will auto seek cover or somehow run into the arc and get the whole squad pinned. Then I've wasted all of that time and effort for nothing.

So yeah, until there's a better solution in place, pardon me for not being thrilled to play this game. Another hint: my "brave" soldiers should stand back up after the gun is no longer shooting at them. They don't have to keep crawling around on the ground for 5 more minutes.


well said.
14 Aug 2013, 19:08 PM
#51
avatar of panzerjager2

Posts: 168



well said.


Of course the friedfag will agree ... even to a blowjob as long as Germans are nerfed.
14 Aug 2013, 20:13 PM
#52
avatar of friedchicken

Posts: 50



Of course the friedfag will agree ... even to a blowjob as long as Germans are nerfed.


If I'm not mistaken this is a public forum, and i am free to express my opinions as long as it is within the forums rules, and if you actually took the time to read his reply instead of running around like a ninja trying to be the first to comment to one of my posts, you would have noticed that he wasn't even talking about Nerf's, he was simply stating how frustrating it is when every game you end up with the same builds, because everyone just spams MG.

Maybe you should stop creating boo-hoo threads about how op everything is and play the game, maybe you will be able to contribute something for once instead of copy/paste posting the same garbage in every thread, it's funny how you're quick to call for a mod to ban me, when your running around using profanity and personal attacking people just because they are trying to share there observations/opinions.

forums, how do they work?
14 Aug 2013, 21:09 PM
#53
avatar of panzerjager2

Posts: 168



If I'm not mistaken this is a public forum, and i am free to express my opinions as long as it is within the forums rules, and if you actually took the time to read his reply instead of running around like a ninja trying to be the first to comment to one of my posts, you would have noticed that he wasn't even talking about Nerf's, he was simply stating how frustrating it is when every game you end up with the same builds, because everyone just spams MG.

Maybe you should stop creating boo-hoo threads about how op everything is and play the game, maybe you will be able to contribute something for once instead of copy/paste posting the same garbage in every thread, it's funny how you're quick to call for a mod to ban me, when your running around using profanity and personal attacking people just because they are trying to share there observations/opinions.

forums, how do they work?


Ok I am getting a little fed up with your flame baiting so I'll bother replying to your whiny posts one more time.

It goes both ways, if I feel that SU85 is too OP for its price its my opinion and if I want to create a thread about it, its not against forum rules. Its not my problem if I offended your soviet fanboism by dare saying su85 needs a nerf.

You on the other hand blatantly resort to trolling, personal insults and flame baiting. You follow me on every thread posting shit and expect me to keep quiet. You have no interest in legitimately discussing balance issues and are only interested in flame baiting and annoying other users on this forum.

The mods will decide if you or anyone else needs a ban. They have all the proof there is based on your history of posts and the fact that others have called you out on the other thread discussing the su85. You proved beyond doubt you have no interest in balance dicussions beyond wanting your Russian side buffed.

With that said I'm done entertaining your trolling.Grow the fuck up.
14 Aug 2013, 21:32 PM
#54
avatar of friedchicken

Posts: 50



Ok I am getting a little fed up with your flame baiting so I'll bother replying to your whiny posts one more time.

It goes both ways, if I feel that SU85 is too OP for its price its my opinion and if I want to create a thread about it, its not against forum rules. Its not my problem if I offended your soviet fanboism by dare saying su85 needs a nerf.

You on the other hand blatantly resort to trolling, personal insults and flame baiting. You follow me on every thread posting shit and expect me to keep quiet. You have no interest in legitimately discussing balance issues and are only interested in flame baiting and annoying other users on this forum.

The mods will decide if you or anyone else needs a ban. They have all the proof there is based on your history of posts and the fact that others have called you out on the other thread discussing the su85. You proved beyond doubt you have no interest in balance dicussions beyond wanting your Russian side buffed.

With that said I'm done entertaining your trolling.Grow the fuck up.


thanks for making the mods decision even easier to make +1, your best post by far
14 Aug 2013, 21:36 PM
#55
avatar of Kallin

Posts: 10



Of course the friedfag will agree ... even to a blowjob as long as Germans are nerfed.




With that said I'm done entertaining your trolling.Grow the fuck up.


Who are you to personally attack everyone on these forums? Can we please get a moderator to put this guy out of his misery? Every post he writes is like a Days of Our Lives special in ebonics...
15 Aug 2013, 06:13 AM
#56
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
HMG spam is fail on both factions.

Its a strong start, but can be immediately countered by light vehicles, and they become a burden in mid-late game.

With one caveat though, HMGs in buildings are still, imo, too hard to shift.
For both factions it basically forces a flame vehicle as the only real counter, rendering both infantry and vanilla light vehicles incapable of forcing them out.

Mortars are largely too innaccurate and not powerful enough to worry a HMG in a building.
I havent seen ZiS Barrage vs a building yet, but even that comes a bit too late. Ost are even more fked vs garrisonned Maxims in this regard.

On an other note, Friedchicken deserves a ban for his insulting posts, trolling and other shit since appeared here. panzerjager2 deserves a warning for being stupid enough to respond to that flaming /trolling in the same way.
15 Aug 2013, 07:09 AM
#57
avatar of Crells

Posts: 255

Oh i remeber the days when we talked about balance with a smile on our faces and contributed valid tactics on getting around strats and agreed when things got out of controll (stug pams, Ram fest, panther win button)

Why cant we go back to those times in stead of all this flameing insulting going on??
15 Aug 2013, 07:46 AM
#58
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Aug 2013, 06:13 AMNullist
HMG spam is fail on both factions.

Its a strong start, but can be immediately countered by light vehicles, and they become a burden in mid-late game.


For the maxim, yes. Hell I'll go as far as saying it's useless before it's even made in the current balance, no need for vehicles.

For the MG42, why on earth would it become a burden? It'll continue to instasuppress any number of squads in a huge frontal arc the entire game. It'll even start killing stuff like crazy once it gets to vet1 and you hit the incendiary ammo button after suppression. The only real counter the soviets ever get access to is clown cars with flamers, and you tend to get screwed very fast as soviets if you overinvest in those because your only viable AT unit (SU85) is also fuel based
15 Aug 2013, 08:28 AM
#59
avatar of Papinak

Posts: 53

To Cruzz:
MG42 in mid-late game is not insta suppressing at all. Theres a lot of light cover made by arty/mortars, squads are vetted and so on. MG42 can by countered by sniper and clown car (even with cons in it) and from T2 by mortar and ZIS barrage (60 muni and comes late, I know). Investing heavy in MG42 means you lack grens (and also fausts) or your tech is delayd so fast T70 will help you a lot.
Axis on the other hand can punish Maxim spammer only with Flame HT cuz sniper and mortar is useless against 6 men (+ merge ability to keep it on the field).
15 Aug 2013, 08:38 AM
#60
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
@Cruzz: If you build 3xHMGs, they become a burden when vehicles hit the field.
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