December Balance Preview

"Especially not you".

I have 1.5 k hours in Coh2 and I play the series since 2006. This statement simply shows how arrogant and full of yourself you are.

Blah blah blah. I'm not going to quote your whole essay. If people want to read it they can scroll up. I'm also not butthurt enough to respond to every line.

Overall you missed my point. The size of your coh2-peen is irrelevant because you aren't playing the mod and providing specific, situational examples of why balance needs to be changed. That is why you are being useless.

Just to be clear I'm not claiming to be useful either. I'm not testing the patch.
I just refrain from mauling anyone who critiques my favourite faction.

Who's really arrogant here?

words

Has the team considered that removing Smoke Grenades from Riflemen nerfs multiple USF bulletins?

Has the team considered that removing Smoke Grenades from Riflemen nerfs multiple USF bulletins?

If I am correct on the ability, unless they changed it to something completely new, the bulletins should affect RE smoke.

Come to think about it. Whats the Panther role in okw army? Its a heavily armored yet fast tank destroyer that can also bully infantry around.

They already have a dedicated (and a damn good at it) tank destroyer in the JP4

OKW Panther is premium medium tank.
But Osteer one is LUL Tank Hunter (unless you can manage to gain vet 3 so it will be really fit the role ).

Come to think about it. Whats the Panther role in okw army? Its a heavily armored yet fast tank destroyer that can also bully infantry around.

They already have a dedicated (and a damn good at it) tank destroyer in the JP4

It should be a tank hunter, you know, something that has a turret.

About the OST panther, why not simply switch the panther and the tiger?

The tiger could be refit in a generalist role (in fact it is already today), the unit would provide more interest in building your T4. On its side, adjust the Brumbar maybe to be a cheaper IA dedicated unit, reducing its armor or health and global dps, something you use in addition with the Tiger.

Then the OST Panther could be use in doctrines as the OKW command panther is, with some adjustment, making it a really dedicated AT unit, increasing its AT power and reducing its AI one and of course increasing its frontal armor.
The unit could be limited to one at time and only available once BP3 is researched.

So we have an Ostheer faction that has easier access to better generalist units around their dedicated AT units (pak40 and Stug) and if their really need another AT source to fight bigger cats such as Churchills, they can either call an Elefant (in teamgame) or a panther (1vs1)

This would also make other than Tiger doctrines more appealing since you could always build a Tiger.

It isn't, anyway panther isn't spammable to begin with even in teamgames.
Okw panther won't become spammable.
Ost panther won't become spammable.
Both already weren't.

But they need to write something to justify changes.

I know lol. It is funny to say the least.

About the OST panther, why not simply switch the panther and the tiger?

The tiger could be refit in a generalist role (in fact it is already today), the unit would provide more interest in building your T4. On its side, adjust the Brumbar maybe to be a cheaper IA dedicated unit, reducing its armor or health and global dps, something you use in addition with the Tiger.

Then the OST Panther could be use in doctrines as the OKW command panther is, with some adjustment, making it a really dedicated AT unit, increasing its AT power and reducing its AI one and of course increasing its frontal armor.
The unit could be limited to one at time and only available once BP3 is researched.

So we have an Ostheer faction that has easier access to better generalist units around their dedicated AT units (pak40 and Stug) and if their really need another AT source to fight bigger cats such as Churchills, they can either call an Elefant (in teamgame) or a panther (1vs1)

This would also make other than Tiger doctrines more appealing since you could always build a Tiger.

Oh god no, that is a great idea! But that won't fit personal agendas for the Mod team!

So we have an Ostheer faction that has easier access to better generalist units around their dedicated AT units (pak40 and Stug) and if their really need another AT source to fight bigger cats such as Churchills, they can either call an Elefant (in teamgame) or a panther (1vs1)

Churchill is not a cat, Churchill is a dog


You cant have Tiger none doc, because there are many abilities which will make the tiger easily OP: Scopes, stuka bomb (nuke ATGs), Hull down, Lefh, even stuff like Luftwaffe flame arty might be too powerful in combination.

About the OST panther, why not simply switch the panther and the tiger?

The tiger could be refit in a generalist role (in fact it is already today), the unit would provide more interest in building your T4. On its side, adjust the Brumbar maybe to be a cheaper IA dedicated unit, reducing its armor or health and global dps, something you use in addition with the Tiger.

Then the OST Panther could be use in doctrines as the OKW command panther is, with some adjustment, making it a really dedicated AT unit, increasing its AT power and reducing its AI one and of course increasing its frontal armor.
The unit could be limited to one at time and only available once BP3 is researched.

So we have an Ostheer faction that has easier access to better generalist units around their dedicated AT units (pak40 and Stug) and if their really need another AT source to fight bigger cats such as Churchills, they can either call an Elefant (in teamgame) or a panther (1vs1)

This would also make other than Tiger doctrines more appealing since you could always build a Tiger.

+1

Many players pick tiger doctrines because that is the only way to deal with late game allied infantry. This is largely due to the real cancer that is indirect fire.

I also seriously doubt any changes to non tiger doctrines will ever make any real appearance due to the fact that Ost often requires a tiger doc.

Churchill is not a cat, Churchill is a dog


You cant have Tiger none doc, because there are many abilities which will make the tiger easily OP: Scopes, stuka bomb (nuke ATGs), Hull down, Lefh, even stuff like Luftwaffe flame arty might be too powerful in combination.

Tiger can be readjusted. We could disable the Hull Down and Scope if those are really powerful. I mean, it is not like they removed tank crew options on half of USF armor..

About the OST panther, why not simply switch the panther and the tiger?

The tiger could be refit in a generalist role (in fact it is already today), the unit would provide more interest in building your T4. On its side, adjust the Brumbar maybe to be a cheaper IA dedicated unit, reducing its armor or health and global dps, something you use in addition with the Tiger.

Then the OST Panther could be use in doctrines as the OKW command panther is, with some adjustment, making it a really dedicated AT unit, increasing its AT power and reducing its AI one and of course increasing its frontal armor.
The unit could be limited to one at time and only available once BP3 is researched.

So we have an Ostheer faction that has easier access to better generalist units around their dedicated AT units (pak40 and Stug) and if their really need another AT source to fight bigger cats such as Churchills, they can either call an Elefant (in teamgame) or a panther (1vs1)

This would also make other than Tiger doctrines more appealing since you could always build a Tiger.

If there is unit among Tiger, Panther and Brummbar that fits best to be in doctrine - it would be Brummbar. It is most gimmick out of three. T3 and T4 both will have generalist and AT specialist units, which is boring but makes sense. Certainly, there would also be serious consequences of such change in terms of faction balance.

Anyway it won't happen ever, I'm not sure if it is any good, I'm putting this idea out just for the sake of discussion.

If there is unit among Tiger, Panther and Brummbar that fits best to be in doctrine - it would be Brummbar. It is most gimmick out of three. T3 and T4 both will have generalist and AT specialist units, which is boring but makes sense. Certainly, there would also be serious consequences of such change in terms of faction balance.

Anyway it won't happen ever, I'm not sure if it is any good, I'm putting this idea out just for the sake of discussion.

I think a dedicated AT unit will never find its place on Ostheer T4 simply because other factions get their TD much earlier. Tiger and Brumbar can fit here because they still counter infantry, you can use them where TDs are not while it is not the case with the actual Panther. You need it where TDs are.

In my opinion the problem with the actual panther is it is a high RNG unit in wrong hands, it can be devastating if its armor bounce some hits as a useless piece of shit if its doesn't.
Players are mainly looking for reliable units, something you can control. If you take a Jackson or a Firefly, if you can't totally control their Damage vs a panther, at least you can control their health. You know they're dead in 3 shots so you use them with this data in mind.
With the panther you should be controlling the dps but the .60 accuracy on the move make it harder for medium level players. And they can't control its health neither, it is supposed to be durable but a bad RNG can force you to retreat before even firing 2 rounds. For the price it has and where it stand in the Ostheer tiering, that's simply too much.
Now I'm not sure we can make it any better, because it would simply be OP in teamgame where there are much more resources available.

So there come my idea, make it a bit over the top AT dedicated tank around where the command panther is actually but limit it to 1 and doctrinal and make the tiger stock with some stats and price adjustments. A good generalist tank is what Ostheer need after all.

Panther was arguably in a good spot until non doctrinal units started showing up dealing more than 160 damage per round.

Namely, Panthers have been in a poor position since Jacksons and Fireflies entered the picture. (And Churchills highlighted the incredible disparity between Panther and StuG dps.)

I feel like a Jackson with 640 health may as well have 160 damage and a stupid high level of penetration, like, 525, so it can always penetrate the targets that they hit.

Then you'd have something that could very specifically hunt heavies, without making it slaughter mediums without a second thought.

Damage should go up, or should it go down, in your opinion; also, which range? Close? mid? Far?

I would say to tune a little down the damage and increase the range to mid

Is it possible to get a price reduction from 155 fuel to 145 fuel for the Firefly? I think the new stats justify it.

Panther was arguably in a good spot until non doctrinal units started showing up dealing more than 160 damage per round.

Namely, Panthers have been in a poor position since Jacksons and Fireflies entered the picture. (And Churchills highlighted the incredible disparity between Panther and StuG dps.)

I feel like a Jackson with 640 health may as well have 160 damage and a stupid high level of penetration, like, 525, so it can always penetrate the targets that they hit.

Then you'd have something that could very specifically hunt heavies, without making it slaughter mediums without a second thought.

I can't imagine how offended some Axis Lovers would be if the Jackson penetrated their big cats every shot.

I can't imagine how offended some Axis Lovers would be if the Jackson penetrated their big cats every shot.

A number of other factors like accuracy, reload, range, sight, unit cost etc etc would all be taken into consideration to make this a viable option.

Where i can see the patchnote for DBP 1.2? I have found it in the steam workshop, but haven't find any info about it.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1191687226