December Balance Preview

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 09:46 AMEsxile

But isn't it going to make flamthrower too good vs garrisoned units? Same question for any type of bundle grenade that can wipe wooden houses in one stroke.

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 09:09 AMMr.Smith

The Panther, at its core, is a low micro generalist unit with high durability and good range and fast speed that can threaten all tank types and infantry. If you can't see why also having pinpoint accuracy on top of that will be an issue, I can't help you.

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 09:56 AMzarok47

Have you ever compared the panthers AI capabilities to the following units: EZ8, Pershing, Tiger, comet, cromwel, and heck even a p4?

On what basis do you judge the panther to belong in that list?

Is the su-76 a generalist aswell, seeing as it has AI capabilties with barrage and crush?
Same for the Stug and the Brumbar?

I'm trying very hard to be polite here, but this claim seems ludicrous to me, same as the claim the panther is " more or less good in the first place".

Gonne love the maxim changes tho.

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 09:56 AMzarok47

Have you ever compared the panthers AI capabilities to the following units: EZ8, Pershing, Tiger, comet, cromwel, and heck even a p4?

On what basis do you judge the panther to belong in that list?

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 09:56 AMzarok47

I'm trying very hard to be polite here, but this claim seems ludicrous to me, same as the claim the panther is " more or less good in the first place".

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 08:56 AMjagd wölfe

...

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 09:45 AMButcher

...

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 10:08 AMMr.Smith

The Panther has much better AT than the forementioned units, but worse AI. Panther MGs are no joke and can cause a lot of bleed. Depending on the terrain, and also given that Panther AI doesn't care about elevation, Panther can deal more AI output than the Comet.

That's also taking into account that the Panther can offer engage units that don't have AT capabilities (e.g., Penals, Tommies and doctrinal USF infantry).



"More or less in a good place" is Relic-speak for "We don't consider OST Panther to be too OP".

The context comes from the secondary focus statement that "Adjustments to select heavy tanks that are currently over performing in team games". Therefore the "good place" refers to the fact that the OST Panther doesn't belong to late-game overperforming armour.

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 10:19 AMzarok47

Panther needs to be stationary, shooting at infantry out of cover and quite close to the panther.
The comet needs to shoot once at a 4 man squad at max range with a change of a lovely instagib.

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 10:08 AMMr.Smith

The Panther has much better AT than the forementioned units, but worse AI. Panther MGs are no joke and can cause a lot of bleed. Depending on the terrain, and also given that Panther AI doesn't care about elevation, Panther can deal more AI output than the Comet.

That's also taking into account that the Panther can offer engage units that don't have AT capabilities (e.g., Penals, Tommies and doctrinal USF infantry).



"More or less in a good place" is Relic-speak for "We don't consider OST Panther to be too OP".

The context comes from the secondary focus statement that "Adjustments to select heavy tanks that are currently over performing in team games". Therefore the "good place" refers to the fact that the OST Panther doesn't belong to late-game overperforming armour.

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 09:09 AMMr.Smith

That's because we had something called Comet spam that was ruining the game for 1.5 years, and we're not going to add Panther spam to replace Comet spam.

The Panther, at its core, is a low micro generalist unit with high durability and good range and fast speed that can threaten all tank types and infantry. If you can't see why also having pinpoint accuracy on top of that will be an issue, I can't help you.

Comet spam was addressed just fine with moving accuracy changes and popcap changes (neither OP nor UP), and it will remain the same for the Panther, given the buffs it has received.

The main issue remaining for OST Panther, imo, is T4 teching cost.

Panther as generalist unit is BS..., the main damage dealer is paid pintle mg, that BARELY manage to drop some models.
Comet was a generalist because it had AOE that can actually kill infantry.
Panther is much less than a generalist than anything else including su76m, except jackson, we can say it is as much of a generalist as firefly...
Comet spam was because it actually had better mobility, firepower..and was a true generalist with free blitz and no brainer upgrade commander.
There are several ways to balance it, from reducing base armor to a complete overhaul

"Problem with OST panther is teching"
Of course, ignore feedback.
The panther HAS NO ROLE EVER, it's just an overarmored brick...

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 10:53 AMIntelligence209

With the threat of snares that lingers in 2v2s

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 10:56 AMjagd wölfe

The panther HAS NO ROLE EVER, it's just an overarmored brick...

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 10:00 AM__deleted__

Guys focus more on QoL changes and both on panther vet2 decrease. There are many great changes naming:
-USF officers no longer cost arm and leg to reinforce
-demos no longer deal double damage when detonated by another explosion
-allied AT guns no longer move like slowpoke through cover
- now you can attack dushka and USF hmg with attack move command
- bofors is no longer abusable, unit must stay in in order to perform whole suppressive barrage
- Toggle fire options now work properly
- Lieutenant + Riflemen combo now can throw names even if you have selected both of these squads
- ...

Jump back to quoted post31 Oct 2017, 10:56 AMMr.Smith

That's where you're wrong.

The Panther has always performed as a generalist tank vs Brits, and will perform even better in that role now that Tulip stun is gone, and Brits will no longer have pre-dug rabbit holes everywhere.

Secondly, Riflemen lost their smoke, so Riflemen is no longer the 1-unit army the Panther has to content with. USF will have to divest in other units, and there will be fewer riflemen with snares running amokk.

Thirdly, Penals lost their snare and Conscripts become squishier with the patch; their main boon is that they hit a lot more reliably. Both units will simply bleed more when a Panther is threatening them.



If I get this right is that you're complaining that the Panther has low DPS, yet has too much HP.

Now you get a patch that reduces some of the durability (with Vet), but not the important bits (the health bonus at Vet2 is still there), and increases the DPS.

Yet, without taking the time to even trial the changes you start complaining? If you know precisely which values we should fix, why not spit them out so that we can see them.

Otherwise, I think it's better we go with the testing-and-feedback approach. Don't you think so too?