December Balance Preview

I guess I was most eager to see how British emplacements had been dealt with. The last time I played, I couldn't find a single means of even threatening a sim city once it was up.

Between that and mortar pits in earlier games, I just couldn't get back this game.

looks good. thanks for keep working on these changes.

Ahahhahaa

So much true
Guys, it's ok to have a party and get high, but wait a little before working on patch changes.

Way better as in the tighter reload (0.3 secs, as opposed to an entire 1 second of variance) will allow you to micro your Panther stop-shooting better.

Care to explain why a tank hunter should stop-shooting now that he has lost armor bonus ?

LITTERALLY WHOLE COMMUNITY said panther is utter shit, because of low dps, low rof, low accuracy, that armor INEVITABLY couldn't compensate for, so you decided to give a minimal rof bonus to it, nerf armor, nerf popcap, it will still misses up close...

IF IT IS SO "balanced and in a good spot" tell me the last time ost players went to tier 4 rather than go stug+tiger or elephant+stug in teamgames

ALSO..

I can't see all the OKW panther spam, maybe it's because it is 200 fuel it is getting in line with new ost panther, but will still cost 200 fuel.
....

Well I KNOW they can't be a one tank army, so please at least consider reworking armor department in a way stug/jadg and panther have reverted roles.
Casamate TD would be needed to counter TD and Heavy tanks, while panther could be accurate, fast firing mobile tank that can reliably counter medium spam and only soft counter high mp meatshield and heavy tank but has durability in exchange for lower range and armor and 185 average pen, while casamate TD get high pen and high damage but long reload.

No one still spotted this small but very important change that may turn the garrison meta upside down and thus greatly impact the early game

Garrisoning
* Load time for buildings increased to 1 (per model)
* Max load time increased to 3.25 (entire squad)
* Unload time for buildings increased to 0.5 (per model)

No one still spotted this small but very important change that may turn the garrison meta upside down and thus greatly impact the early game

At least it's a fun nerf for those 6 man soviet weapon teams. Would 6 men be a 3 second load time + the weapon tear down time?

Also it makes anything with a short fuse, doubly so the commando instant grenade, to be practically undodgeable.

Great changes all around as usual. Sucks that you lost some work on the Fall patch due to democracy, but really glad to see the patch team is still on the job.

No one still spotted this small but very important change that may turn the garrison meta upside down and thus greatly impact the early game

That's really a good change indeed.

Why not give mobile mortar to brits instead of mortar pit? And also why not give non doctrinal flame thrower?

Also it makes anything with a short fuse, doubly so the commando instant grenade, to be practically undodgeable.

+1.

As if penal satchel weren't already bs enough, now people will be screaming at their monitors for units to get out of houses. Things like double flame units and re flamers in particular will be extremely op against houses if time correctly.

Fundamentally a bad and unnecessary change that has more to do with mod principles and very little about improving gameplay. This simply adds frustration and cheesy wipes.

There were far, far more important issues that this trivial crap.

Why not also modify the volley fire rear echelon ability? maybe increase cost and increase efectivity? or maybe a better ability that comes with veterancy? I already said it but why not also give it the ability to equip and unequip the mine sweeper like sturmpioneers?



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also maybe the 50 cal could be moved to cap tier and the at gun to lt tier so more people will use the AA halftrack + at gun and the stuart + 50 cal? so we have at and ai in both tech sides

i really like to see artillery regiment revamp for example concentrete barrage need to require line of sight and valentine need to stop being outshadow by AEC something like change them to be more harass isolate unit type of vehicle

also maybe the 50 cal could be moved to cap tier and the at gun to lt tier so more people will use the AA halftrack + at gun and the stuart + 50 cal? so we have at and ai in both tech sides

that can happen tho if they pick this change from revamp. in revamp you also have AAHT+ATgun from Captain tier

Rear- Echelons / Riflemen
To improve Rear Echelons as a support unit and improve their usefulness at different stages of a match, the following changes have been made:

Smoke moved from Riflemen to Rear Echelon (Lieutenant retains smoke)
Now have access to the Light M7 mine at a cost of 15 Munitions per min

Great changes that will give more punch to Airborn doctrine, I just hope the P47 bombing run will be improved so the doctrine become viable again I also hope the revamp of 3 USF doctrines includes the reco one. On the other hand, I don't know if the Jackson health buff is justified and will be useful, that's probably something we will discover once a new meta is in place.

What I don't really understand is the runt about panthers changes, the most important changes about panthers is the sum of FF nerf. The real panther'a nemesis today is the FireFly. Of course, we also need to monitor how the panther performs vs the new Jackson.

- Panthers have higher popcap but have better reload time. (armor buff was BS anyway)
- FireFly have less accuracy and less accuracy on the move and its tulip doesn't cancel move order anymore. That's a huge nerf for the UKF only tank destroyer.

Great changes that will give more punch to Airborn doctrine, I just hope the P47 bombing run will be improved so the doctrine become viable again I also hope the revamp of 3 USF doctrines includes the reco one. On the other hand, I don't know if the Jackson health buff is justified and will be useful, that's probably something we will discover once a new meta is in place.

What I don't really understand is the runt about panthers changes, the most important changes about panthers is the sum of FF nerf. The real panther'a nemesis today is the FireFly. Of course, we also need to monitor how the panther performs vs the new Jackson.

- Panthers have higher popcap but have better reload time. (armor buff was BS anyway)
- FireFly have less accuracy and less accuracy on the move and its tulip doesn't cancel move order anymore. That's a huge nerf for the UKF only tank destroyer.

What changes ?
Firefly sgoing from over the top never seen accuracy to still the best accuracy over any vehicle in game ?
Firefly going from best moving accuracy in game to the best moving accuracy in game excluding usf but better than anything else including 200 fuel "Tank hunters" ?
An antitank ability being nerfed in anti infantry collateral damage ?
I'm missing the point telling "jackson and firefly" will dominate everything , if there's any

Armor nerf, popcap nerf, accuracy nerf...oh yeah 0.3-0.6 sec better rof Op powercreep!1!!11

What changes ?
Firefly sgoing from over the top never seen accuracy to still the best accuracy over any vehicle in game ?
Firefly going from best moving accuracy in game to the best moving accuracy in game excluding usf but better than anything else including 200 fuel "Tank hunters" ?
An antitank ability being nerfed in anti infantry collateral damage ?
I'm missing the point telling "jackson and firefly" will dominate everything , if there's any

FF and Jackson while having a good lifepool now have almost 0 chance to deflect a Panther hit, this is why the accuracy is different. Panther with a better accuracy would be too good as it would never miss nor never being deflected.
I can understand that you prefer a better accuracy over a better armor but this is a factional design decision making, one of the few asymmetrical design that means something.

FF and Jackson while having a good lifepool now have almost 0 chance to deflect a Panther hit, this is why the accuracy is different. Panther with a better accuracy would be too good as it would never miss nor never being deflected.
I can understand that you prefer a better accuracy over a better armor but this is a factional design decision making, one of the few asymmetrical design that means something.

It's a factional design decision nobody likes, from top 10 to 4000, nobody ever build panther, and when EVEN STURMPANTHER, of the balance team, tells you that "tier 4 is only good for Brummbar" how can they even write that "MORE OF LESS IS IN A GOOD SPOT, SO LET'S NERF IT".

"We made it shit because otherwise is OP" is bullshit..firefly cost less than panther, if cost is a problem they could even make panther more expensive to okw...but ost panther teching path is extremely more expensive than panther anyway.
Firefly has stun rockets, jackson has mobility, su85 has fast rof...all of them have more range (the difference could even become higher with panther having 45 range if it is needed).

AND OFC as I said, they could rework panther as fast firing vehicle with jadgpanzer 4/stug penetration, 45 range and make casamate tank destroyer high pen high damage anti heavy damage high range bigh pen and them decrese cost of panther at the expenses of stug/jadg cost.

Everything but:" it's shit and we can't fix it"
They DO CARE about community approval indeed...

Care to explain why a tank hunter should stop-shooting

That's because we had something called Comet spam that was ruining the game for 1.5 years, and we're not going to add Panther spam to replace Comet spam.

The Panther, at its core, is a low micro generalist unit with high durability and good range and fast speed that can threaten all tank types and infantry. If you can't see why also having pinpoint accuracy on top of that will be an issue, I can't help you.

Comet spam was addressed just fine with moving accuracy changes and popcap changes (neither OP nor UP), and it will remain the same for the Panther, given the buffs it has received.

The main issue remaining for OST Panther, imo, is T4 teching cost.

No one still spotted this small but very important change that may turn the garrison meta upside down and thus greatly impact the early game

Why not give mobile mortar to brits instead of mortar pit? And also why not give non doctrinal flame thrower?

While every faction should have all tools available to them, it's better that they don't have these tools available in the same format.

Yeah. Garrison-hoping fixes & Repair speed fixes are probably the two most significant changes in the update so far.

Garrison-hoping was this great "feature" that made mortars & grenades useless vs garrisons, and had been driving the community in droves to crucify mapmakers everytime they would add a building that wouldn't die in two hits.

While the option of non-doc flamers is on the table, we first want to see whether grenade tech, mortars and smoke will be enough to dislodge occupied positions.

In the Revamp mod, where we had been trialing this change for over a few months, grenades were more than enough. That's because if you're foolish enough to try to jump-dodge a grenade while a squad is shooting at you, your squad will be giving up garrison bonus for a full 4.5 seconds being grazed with bullets point-blank, and returning little fire in return.

Thus, if you don't have flamers, the best counterplay to garrisons will be cover all exits and throw a grenade. Or walk up to the door and throw a grenade, then try to steal the garrison.

So the Panther is supposed to chase vehicles due to its 50 range, opposed to the 60 range of real TDs. But then while chasing needs to stop which leads to not being able to pursue further. That's some next level bullshit here.

It gets regularily penetrated by the SU-85, Firefly, Jackson (which now received a further buff). Vet 2 was a feature that actually gave the Panther a chance versus superior 60 range TDs.

Claimig the Ostheer Panther was a generalist unit shows me you have no clue of the game, Mr. Smith. It hardly gets any infantry kills even in longer games.

I remember your agenda to dumb the game down to "all factions having the same performance at every stage of the game". This time you have overdone it though. This is an absolute nerf to the whole Axis lategame. To add insult to injury a huge part of the nerfs hit the already weakest faction of the game (Ostheer).

The small reload "buff" is just an excuse you can pretend, to push your agenda further which is Allied lategame dominance.

In the end you are pushing your L2P issues on the community. And that is weak.

But isn't it going to make flamthrower too good vs garrisoned units? Same question for any type of bundle grenade that can wipe wooden houses in one stroke.

For god's sack, give the people the OST Panther they want for so long just to see how it will work.

I also think that the Panther needs something but not that much that the people ask for.
I see all of them (in 1s) going for Panther every chance they get. And i mean EVERY chance they get (i do it my self,maybe because i think that the Panther is OK). But they still complaining.
To me this is a little bit confusing. Why? Because its UP they say (but they still going for it? ).

I don't know what is the right thing (Buff it or not Buff it) but i really mean that what i wrote. Please BUFF the Panther and make people happy ( you always can change it back and its not like you never done mistakes before).