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Posts: 2885
So you are implying that vet 3 ppsh cons should be able to rush no hourra to green covered vet 4 falls and kill them all ?
Posts: 4474
this hurts my brain are you implying that out of cover they would do better or what ?
The outcome of that engagement was surely not ballanced but I think it's worth noting that in case of this engagement the green cover favours cons, not falls becouse it doesn't apply at such range either way and it doesn't allow falls to spread out. It also reduces damage of potential defending granade thrown on con squad path.
Katitof-2018
Posts: 88
Posts: 1660
The outcome of that engagement was surely not ballanced but I think it's worth noting that in case of this engagement the green cover favours cons, not falls becouse it doesn't apply at such range either way and it doesn't allow falls to spread out. It also reduces damage of potential defending granade thrown on con squad path.
Posts: 2066
Not really.
If you lay down MechHQ at the precise moment you have enough for the MechHQ (but not enough for a luchs), you need to wait for 60 more fuel for the Luchs.
60 more fuel is easily 2-3 minutes. The MechHQ will finish being produced well before those 2-3 minutes you are waiting to receive fuel income.
If you do this, and the proposed cooldown is shorter than, say, 2 minutes it will have no effect of delaying the Luchs.
That's a performance adjustment to the Luchs. We find there's nothing wrong with Luchs performance, and altering its vet0 performance would make a delayed luchs a severe liability. Nobody would build it, and if you don't have luchs you don't have MechHQ.
This is sort of like the Flame Hetzer in DBP. For anybody that's used it briefly, it's Vet0 performance is extremely meh. However if you get the Hetzer at Vet1, it becomes actually damn good for cost.
One of the upcoming changes to the Hetzer is giving it its Vet1 performance at Vet0, just to facilitate it entering the field.
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.....what ?
So the enagagement outcome would be different if they used no cover ?
this hurts my brain are you implying that out of cover they would do better or what ?
Posts: 4474
OK maybe I explained in badly, what I mean is that its true that falls weapon have better dps curve, but they are 4 vs 5 weapons losing around 20-30 dps at close and stealth + ambush fix commando long range problem , With bren they should either lose their close range dps or not gain such an advantage at long range.
Sorry, I don't get the idea of your post. Yes, commando changes are stupid and potentially dangerous to balance. Yes, okw mostly has 4 men squads. They have 2 that have more than 4 men and both of them cause balance issues since okw release. There is nothing new here.
Katitof-2018
Posts: 1660
Yes they would. Green and yellow cover doesn't apply under 10 range. Here is an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XID8YfsWfZo
Mind that cons shoot only when stationary when ourah ability is used so they don't fire a single shot before entering 10 range, meaning that falls don't benefit from their cover at all.
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
Regardless of vet 5 15% accuracy not working, it still seems out of whack that vet 4 falls would perform similarly, given that many other units get 40% accuracy bonuses at vet 2, waitng until vet 5 to get 30% accuracy total seems very out of line with other units veterancies. This is particularly bad considering they do not recieve any weapon upgrades, meaning that their veterancy could be better to compensate when it is in fact worse.
Similarly though paratroopers have relatively poor poor veteran bonuses, but they have access to some of the best weapon upgrades available.
Sorry, I don't get the idea of your post. Yes, commando changes are stupid and potentially dangerous to ballance. Yes, okw mostly has 4 men squads. They have 2 that have more than 4 men and both of them couse ballance issues since okw release. There is nothing new here.
Posts: 4474
i know i tested it but what would change if they were in no cover ? they would stil be in the 10 lethal range of the ppsh
Yes they would. Green and yellow cover doesn't apply under 10 range. Here is an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XID8YfsWfZo
Mind that cons shoot only when stationary when ourah ability is used so they don't fire a single shot before entering 10 range, meaning that falls don't benefit from their cover at all.
Katitof-2018
1 Posts: 2885
OFC.
1) they used no hourra
2) they have shot all the way to cover
3) you are trying to justify top level crap you apparently haven't seen at all.
I did+.5 ask you to explain point blank mechanic, I asked you where's the difference if they haven't fired a single nade anyway.
Posts: 4474
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/208418162
Give me the link to the video then becouse apparently we didn't watch the same one.
I also am not justifying cons in that engagement. I already said it was not ballanced in my opinion, do I need to repeat that over and over again?
If they were spread out they would be further from con models on average and that makes a difference for example for mosin damage curve. They would also recive less damage from missed shots than when clumbed up.
Katitof-2018
1 Posts: 2885
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/208418162
no hurra and not hit the dirt which they can beat ober with
Posts: 88
Do you mean fall and the example when they win at one model due to rng? Sure, falls should probably win every time in that one, with one or 2 models left. Still this one is not actually that bad as it gives ages to react. I was talking about the ourah one when cons won quickly with 5 models left becouse that actually is pretty imballanced.
10 
Posts: 871
1 Posts: 2885
Cons won most of that tests. Honestly falls win only 2 of the 6 or 7 tests, and one of wins was with the officier aura.
Posts: 88
I assume you are running each test 5+ times and not just once?
Posts: 88
Yeah, I've seen most of them now. It shows that there really is something wrong with the ballance between these 2 units. Still, you should keep in mind that you are also using cons in the way they are ment to be used, while falls are being used like nobody ever does.
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
1 Posts: 2885
And they are a great defensive suplement to cloaked rakketen. First you hit tank with rakketen, then you faust it with cloaked Falls and then you finish it off. Your opponent wont even notice what has happened before its too late
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